What functions can be made continuous by “mixing up their domain”?
Definition. A function $f:Bbb RtoBbb R$ will be called potentially continuous if there is a bijection $phi:Bbb RtoBbb R$ so that $fcirc phi$ is continuous.
So one could say a potentially continuous (p.c.) function is "a continuous function with a mixed up domain". I was wondering whether there is an easy way to characterize such functions.
Some thoughts $DeclareMathOperator{im}{im}$
- If the image $im(f)$ is not connected (i.e. no interval), then $f$ is not p.c. because even mixing the domain cannot make $f$ satisfy the intermediate value theorem.
- Bijective functions are always p.c. because we can choose $phi=f^{-1}$. Every injective function with an open connected image is p.c. for a similar reason. However, only having a connected image is not enough, as e.g. there are bijections, but no continuous bijections $f:Bbb R to [0,1]$.
- Initially I thought a function can never be p.c. if it attains every value (or at least uncountably many values) uncountably often, e.g. like Conways base 13 function. But then I discovered this: take a Peano curve like function $c$ (or any other continuous surjection $Bbb RtoBbb R^2$) and only look at the $x$-component $c_x:Bbb RtoBbb R$. This is a continuous function which attains every value uncountably often.
- The question can also be asked this way. Given a family of pairs $(r_i,kappa_i),iin I$ of real numbers $r_i$ and cardinal numbers $kappa_ilemathfrak c$ so that ${r_imid iin I}$ is connected. Can we find a continuous function $f:Bbb RtoBbb R$ with $|f^{-1}(r_i)|=kappa_i$?
- There is no continuous function which attains each real number exactly once except zero which is attained twice. So, e.g. the function
$$f(x)=begin{cases}x-1&text{for $xinBbb N$}\x&text{otherwise}end{cases}$$
is not p.c., even though its image is all of $Bbb R$.
real-analysis functions continuity set-theory
|
show 27 more comments
Definition. A function $f:Bbb RtoBbb R$ will be called potentially continuous if there is a bijection $phi:Bbb RtoBbb R$ so that $fcirc phi$ is continuous.
So one could say a potentially continuous (p.c.) function is "a continuous function with a mixed up domain". I was wondering whether there is an easy way to characterize such functions.
Some thoughts $DeclareMathOperator{im}{im}$
- If the image $im(f)$ is not connected (i.e. no interval), then $f$ is not p.c. because even mixing the domain cannot make $f$ satisfy the intermediate value theorem.
- Bijective functions are always p.c. because we can choose $phi=f^{-1}$. Every injective function with an open connected image is p.c. for a similar reason. However, only having a connected image is not enough, as e.g. there are bijections, but no continuous bijections $f:Bbb R to [0,1]$.
- Initially I thought a function can never be p.c. if it attains every value (or at least uncountably many values) uncountably often, e.g. like Conways base 13 function. But then I discovered this: take a Peano curve like function $c$ (or any other continuous surjection $Bbb RtoBbb R^2$) and only look at the $x$-component $c_x:Bbb RtoBbb R$. This is a continuous function which attains every value uncountably often.
- The question can also be asked this way. Given a family of pairs $(r_i,kappa_i),iin I$ of real numbers $r_i$ and cardinal numbers $kappa_ilemathfrak c$ so that ${r_imid iin I}$ is connected. Can we find a continuous function $f:Bbb RtoBbb R$ with $|f^{-1}(r_i)|=kappa_i$?
- There is no continuous function which attains each real number exactly once except zero which is attained twice. So, e.g. the function
$$f(x)=begin{cases}x-1&text{for $xinBbb N$}\x&text{otherwise}end{cases}$$
is not p.c., even though its image is all of $Bbb R$.
real-analysis functions continuity set-theory
6
(+1) Interesting question. My bet is that any function with a connected range is potentially continuous.
– Jack D'Aurizio
Oct 20 '17 at 21:43
1
If $f^{-1}(0) = {a,b}$, and $f$ injective on $(a,b)$, then $f$ is strictly increasing or decreasing on $(a,b)$, so $f(a) ne f(b)$, contradiction.
– Orest Bucicovschi
Oct 21 '17 at 0:41
1
It might be a good idea to first answer the question in the case when $vert f^{-1}(x)vertle 2$ for all $x$ ...
– Noah Schweber
Oct 21 '17 at 2:03
1
My answers to math.stackexchange.com/questions/1441063/… and math.stackexchange.com/questions/1439689/… address some special cases of this, and suggest the question is fairly complicated to answer even in the case that all the fibers are finite.
– Eric Wofsey
Oct 21 '17 at 4:56
2
Is every Darboux function potentially continuous ?
– adityaguharoy
Dec 18 '17 at 15:50
|
show 27 more comments
Definition. A function $f:Bbb RtoBbb R$ will be called potentially continuous if there is a bijection $phi:Bbb RtoBbb R$ so that $fcirc phi$ is continuous.
So one could say a potentially continuous (p.c.) function is "a continuous function with a mixed up domain". I was wondering whether there is an easy way to characterize such functions.
Some thoughts $DeclareMathOperator{im}{im}$
- If the image $im(f)$ is not connected (i.e. no interval), then $f$ is not p.c. because even mixing the domain cannot make $f$ satisfy the intermediate value theorem.
- Bijective functions are always p.c. because we can choose $phi=f^{-1}$. Every injective function with an open connected image is p.c. for a similar reason. However, only having a connected image is not enough, as e.g. there are bijections, but no continuous bijections $f:Bbb R to [0,1]$.
- Initially I thought a function can never be p.c. if it attains every value (or at least uncountably many values) uncountably often, e.g. like Conways base 13 function. But then I discovered this: take a Peano curve like function $c$ (or any other continuous surjection $Bbb RtoBbb R^2$) and only look at the $x$-component $c_x:Bbb RtoBbb R$. This is a continuous function which attains every value uncountably often.
- The question can also be asked this way. Given a family of pairs $(r_i,kappa_i),iin I$ of real numbers $r_i$ and cardinal numbers $kappa_ilemathfrak c$ so that ${r_imid iin I}$ is connected. Can we find a continuous function $f:Bbb RtoBbb R$ with $|f^{-1}(r_i)|=kappa_i$?
- There is no continuous function which attains each real number exactly once except zero which is attained twice. So, e.g. the function
$$f(x)=begin{cases}x-1&text{for $xinBbb N$}\x&text{otherwise}end{cases}$$
is not p.c., even though its image is all of $Bbb R$.
real-analysis functions continuity set-theory
Definition. A function $f:Bbb RtoBbb R$ will be called potentially continuous if there is a bijection $phi:Bbb RtoBbb R$ so that $fcirc phi$ is continuous.
So one could say a potentially continuous (p.c.) function is "a continuous function with a mixed up domain". I was wondering whether there is an easy way to characterize such functions.
Some thoughts $DeclareMathOperator{im}{im}$
- If the image $im(f)$ is not connected (i.e. no interval), then $f$ is not p.c. because even mixing the domain cannot make $f$ satisfy the intermediate value theorem.
- Bijective functions are always p.c. because we can choose $phi=f^{-1}$. Every injective function with an open connected image is p.c. for a similar reason. However, only having a connected image is not enough, as e.g. there are bijections, but no continuous bijections $f:Bbb R to [0,1]$.
- Initially I thought a function can never be p.c. if it attains every value (or at least uncountably many values) uncountably often, e.g. like Conways base 13 function. But then I discovered this: take a Peano curve like function $c$ (or any other continuous surjection $Bbb RtoBbb R^2$) and only look at the $x$-component $c_x:Bbb RtoBbb R$. This is a continuous function which attains every value uncountably often.
- The question can also be asked this way. Given a family of pairs $(r_i,kappa_i),iin I$ of real numbers $r_i$ and cardinal numbers $kappa_ilemathfrak c$ so that ${r_imid iin I}$ is connected. Can we find a continuous function $f:Bbb RtoBbb R$ with $|f^{-1}(r_i)|=kappa_i$?
- There is no continuous function which attains each real number exactly once except zero which is attained twice. So, e.g. the function
$$f(x)=begin{cases}x-1&text{for $xinBbb N$}\x&text{otherwise}end{cases}$$
is not p.c., even though its image is all of $Bbb R$.
real-analysis functions continuity set-theory
real-analysis functions continuity set-theory
edited Dec 29 '18 at 20:46
Noah Schweber
122k10149284
122k10149284
asked Oct 20 '17 at 21:32
M. WinterM. Winter
18.9k72766
18.9k72766
6
(+1) Interesting question. My bet is that any function with a connected range is potentially continuous.
– Jack D'Aurizio
Oct 20 '17 at 21:43
1
If $f^{-1}(0) = {a,b}$, and $f$ injective on $(a,b)$, then $f$ is strictly increasing or decreasing on $(a,b)$, so $f(a) ne f(b)$, contradiction.
– Orest Bucicovschi
Oct 21 '17 at 0:41
1
It might be a good idea to first answer the question in the case when $vert f^{-1}(x)vertle 2$ for all $x$ ...
– Noah Schweber
Oct 21 '17 at 2:03
1
My answers to math.stackexchange.com/questions/1441063/… and math.stackexchange.com/questions/1439689/… address some special cases of this, and suggest the question is fairly complicated to answer even in the case that all the fibers are finite.
– Eric Wofsey
Oct 21 '17 at 4:56
2
Is every Darboux function potentially continuous ?
– adityaguharoy
Dec 18 '17 at 15:50
|
show 27 more comments
6
(+1) Interesting question. My bet is that any function with a connected range is potentially continuous.
– Jack D'Aurizio
Oct 20 '17 at 21:43
1
If $f^{-1}(0) = {a,b}$, and $f$ injective on $(a,b)$, then $f$ is strictly increasing or decreasing on $(a,b)$, so $f(a) ne f(b)$, contradiction.
– Orest Bucicovschi
Oct 21 '17 at 0:41
1
It might be a good idea to first answer the question in the case when $vert f^{-1}(x)vertle 2$ for all $x$ ...
– Noah Schweber
Oct 21 '17 at 2:03
1
My answers to math.stackexchange.com/questions/1441063/… and math.stackexchange.com/questions/1439689/… address some special cases of this, and suggest the question is fairly complicated to answer even in the case that all the fibers are finite.
– Eric Wofsey
Oct 21 '17 at 4:56
2
Is every Darboux function potentially continuous ?
– adityaguharoy
Dec 18 '17 at 15:50
6
6
(+1) Interesting question. My bet is that any function with a connected range is potentially continuous.
– Jack D'Aurizio
Oct 20 '17 at 21:43
(+1) Interesting question. My bet is that any function with a connected range is potentially continuous.
– Jack D'Aurizio
Oct 20 '17 at 21:43
1
1
If $f^{-1}(0) = {a,b}$, and $f$ injective on $(a,b)$, then $f$ is strictly increasing or decreasing on $(a,b)$, so $f(a) ne f(b)$, contradiction.
– Orest Bucicovschi
Oct 21 '17 at 0:41
If $f^{-1}(0) = {a,b}$, and $f$ injective on $(a,b)$, then $f$ is strictly increasing or decreasing on $(a,b)$, so $f(a) ne f(b)$, contradiction.
– Orest Bucicovschi
Oct 21 '17 at 0:41
1
1
It might be a good idea to first answer the question in the case when $vert f^{-1}(x)vertle 2$ for all $x$ ...
– Noah Schweber
Oct 21 '17 at 2:03
It might be a good idea to first answer the question in the case when $vert f^{-1}(x)vertle 2$ for all $x$ ...
– Noah Schweber
Oct 21 '17 at 2:03
1
1
My answers to math.stackexchange.com/questions/1441063/… and math.stackexchange.com/questions/1439689/… address some special cases of this, and suggest the question is fairly complicated to answer even in the case that all the fibers are finite.
– Eric Wofsey
Oct 21 '17 at 4:56
My answers to math.stackexchange.com/questions/1441063/… and math.stackexchange.com/questions/1439689/… address some special cases of this, and suggest the question is fairly complicated to answer even in the case that all the fibers are finite.
– Eric Wofsey
Oct 21 '17 at 4:56
2
2
Is every Darboux function potentially continuous ?
– adityaguharoy
Dec 18 '17 at 15:50
Is every Darboux function potentially continuous ?
– adityaguharoy
Dec 18 '17 at 15:50
|
show 27 more comments
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active
oldest
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active
oldest
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protected by Noah Schweber Jan 4 at 15:10
Thank you for your interest in this question.
Because it has attracted low-quality or spam answers that had to be removed, posting an answer now requires 10 reputation on this site (the association bonus does not count).
Would you like to answer one of these unanswered questions instead?
6
(+1) Interesting question. My bet is that any function with a connected range is potentially continuous.
– Jack D'Aurizio
Oct 20 '17 at 21:43
1
If $f^{-1}(0) = {a,b}$, and $f$ injective on $(a,b)$, then $f$ is strictly increasing or decreasing on $(a,b)$, so $f(a) ne f(b)$, contradiction.
– Orest Bucicovschi
Oct 21 '17 at 0:41
1
It might be a good idea to first answer the question in the case when $vert f^{-1}(x)vertle 2$ for all $x$ ...
– Noah Schweber
Oct 21 '17 at 2:03
1
My answers to math.stackexchange.com/questions/1441063/… and math.stackexchange.com/questions/1439689/… address some special cases of this, and suggest the question is fairly complicated to answer even in the case that all the fibers are finite.
– Eric Wofsey
Oct 21 '17 at 4:56
2
Is every Darboux function potentially continuous ?
– adityaguharoy
Dec 18 '17 at 15:50