Intuition: Power Set of Intersection/Union (Velleman P77 & Ex 2.3.10, 11)












3














Source: How to Prove It, 2nd Ed by Velleman. $mathcal{P}(...) =$ power set of ... & $A, B$ are any sets:




Ex 2.3.10: $qquad qquad qquad qquad qquad qquad mathcal{P}(A cap B) = mathcal{P}(A) cap mathcal{P}(B)$

Ex 2.3.11 = Chartrand Ex 7.55: $ qquad qquad color{ #0070FF}{mathcal{P}(A cup B)} neq color{green}{mathcal{P}(A) cup mathcal{P}(B)}$




What are the intuitions? Where did your intuitions originate from? No proofs please.



I compassed to grok this by writing everything out explicitly.

For instance, for Ex 2.3.11, because $color{ #0070FF}{mathcal{P}(A cup B) = {color{green}{subsets}, A cup B}}$,

but $color{green}{mathcal{P}(A) cup mathcal{P}(B) = {subsets}}$,

thus (UNintuitively) $color{ #0070FF}{mathcal{P}(A cup B)} = color{green}{mathcal{P}(A) cup mathcal{P}(B)} cup (A cup B)$.










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  • 1




    $ mathcal{P}(A cap B) = mathcal{P}(A) cap mathcal{P}(B)$ means that every subset of $Acap B$ is a subset of $A$ and $B$ and vice versa. $Acup B$ is not a subset of $A$ or $B$. That is, $mathcal{P}(A cup B) neqmathcal{P}(A) cup mathcal{P}(B)$ means that some subset of $Acup B$ is not a subset of $A$ or $B$.
    – Hanul Jeon
    Sep 20 '13 at 16:58








  • 4




    What if my intuition came from proving it?
    – user642796
    Sep 20 '13 at 17:00






  • 1




    Continuing from what @tetori wrote you can consider the case $Aneq B$ then $A cup B$ will have more elements than $A$ and more elements than $B$. Hence the power set of $A cup B$ will contain a set that has more elements than $A$ or $B$, whereas the power set of $A$ and $B$ individually cannot contain sets larger than themselves
    – Keeran Brabazon
    Sep 20 '13 at 17:25








  • 1




    You have to turn proofs, facts, and examples into new good intuition and not the other way around. Unless you want to be forever limited by how true is your personal intuition.
    – mercio
    Sep 21 '13 at 11:06










  • @KeeranBrabazon: Would you like to post an Answer?
    – Greek - Area 51 Proposal
    Oct 9 '13 at 15:32
















3














Source: How to Prove It, 2nd Ed by Velleman. $mathcal{P}(...) =$ power set of ... & $A, B$ are any sets:




Ex 2.3.10: $qquad qquad qquad qquad qquad qquad mathcal{P}(A cap B) = mathcal{P}(A) cap mathcal{P}(B)$

Ex 2.3.11 = Chartrand Ex 7.55: $ qquad qquad color{ #0070FF}{mathcal{P}(A cup B)} neq color{green}{mathcal{P}(A) cup mathcal{P}(B)}$




What are the intuitions? Where did your intuitions originate from? No proofs please.



I compassed to grok this by writing everything out explicitly.

For instance, for Ex 2.3.11, because $color{ #0070FF}{mathcal{P}(A cup B) = {color{green}{subsets}, A cup B}}$,

but $color{green}{mathcal{P}(A) cup mathcal{P}(B) = {subsets}}$,

thus (UNintuitively) $color{ #0070FF}{mathcal{P}(A cup B)} = color{green}{mathcal{P}(A) cup mathcal{P}(B)} cup (A cup B)$.










share|cite|improve this question




















  • 1




    $ mathcal{P}(A cap B) = mathcal{P}(A) cap mathcal{P}(B)$ means that every subset of $Acap B$ is a subset of $A$ and $B$ and vice versa. $Acup B$ is not a subset of $A$ or $B$. That is, $mathcal{P}(A cup B) neqmathcal{P}(A) cup mathcal{P}(B)$ means that some subset of $Acup B$ is not a subset of $A$ or $B$.
    – Hanul Jeon
    Sep 20 '13 at 16:58








  • 4




    What if my intuition came from proving it?
    – user642796
    Sep 20 '13 at 17:00






  • 1




    Continuing from what @tetori wrote you can consider the case $Aneq B$ then $A cup B$ will have more elements than $A$ and more elements than $B$. Hence the power set of $A cup B$ will contain a set that has more elements than $A$ or $B$, whereas the power set of $A$ and $B$ individually cannot contain sets larger than themselves
    – Keeran Brabazon
    Sep 20 '13 at 17:25








  • 1




    You have to turn proofs, facts, and examples into new good intuition and not the other way around. Unless you want to be forever limited by how true is your personal intuition.
    – mercio
    Sep 21 '13 at 11:06










  • @KeeranBrabazon: Would you like to post an Answer?
    – Greek - Area 51 Proposal
    Oct 9 '13 at 15:32














3












3








3


3





Source: How to Prove It, 2nd Ed by Velleman. $mathcal{P}(...) =$ power set of ... & $A, B$ are any sets:




Ex 2.3.10: $qquad qquad qquad qquad qquad qquad mathcal{P}(A cap B) = mathcal{P}(A) cap mathcal{P}(B)$

Ex 2.3.11 = Chartrand Ex 7.55: $ qquad qquad color{ #0070FF}{mathcal{P}(A cup B)} neq color{green}{mathcal{P}(A) cup mathcal{P}(B)}$




What are the intuitions? Where did your intuitions originate from? No proofs please.



I compassed to grok this by writing everything out explicitly.

For instance, for Ex 2.3.11, because $color{ #0070FF}{mathcal{P}(A cup B) = {color{green}{subsets}, A cup B}}$,

but $color{green}{mathcal{P}(A) cup mathcal{P}(B) = {subsets}}$,

thus (UNintuitively) $color{ #0070FF}{mathcal{P}(A cup B)} = color{green}{mathcal{P}(A) cup mathcal{P}(B)} cup (A cup B)$.










share|cite|improve this question















Source: How to Prove It, 2nd Ed by Velleman. $mathcal{P}(...) =$ power set of ... & $A, B$ are any sets:




Ex 2.3.10: $qquad qquad qquad qquad qquad qquad mathcal{P}(A cap B) = mathcal{P}(A) cap mathcal{P}(B)$

Ex 2.3.11 = Chartrand Ex 7.55: $ qquad qquad color{ #0070FF}{mathcal{P}(A cup B)} neq color{green}{mathcal{P}(A) cup mathcal{P}(B)}$




What are the intuitions? Where did your intuitions originate from? No proofs please.



I compassed to grok this by writing everything out explicitly.

For instance, for Ex 2.3.11, because $color{ #0070FF}{mathcal{P}(A cup B) = {color{green}{subsets}, A cup B}}$,

but $color{green}{mathcal{P}(A) cup mathcal{P}(B) = {subsets}}$,

thus (UNintuitively) $color{ #0070FF}{mathcal{P}(A cup B)} = color{green}{mathcal{P}(A) cup mathcal{P}(B)} cup (A cup B)$.







elementary-set-theory intuition






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edited Oct 9 '13 at 15:43







Greek - Area 51 Proposal

















asked Sep 20 '13 at 16:52









Greek - Area 51 ProposalGreek - Area 51 Proposal

3,158669103




3,158669103








  • 1




    $ mathcal{P}(A cap B) = mathcal{P}(A) cap mathcal{P}(B)$ means that every subset of $Acap B$ is a subset of $A$ and $B$ and vice versa. $Acup B$ is not a subset of $A$ or $B$. That is, $mathcal{P}(A cup B) neqmathcal{P}(A) cup mathcal{P}(B)$ means that some subset of $Acup B$ is not a subset of $A$ or $B$.
    – Hanul Jeon
    Sep 20 '13 at 16:58








  • 4




    What if my intuition came from proving it?
    – user642796
    Sep 20 '13 at 17:00






  • 1




    Continuing from what @tetori wrote you can consider the case $Aneq B$ then $A cup B$ will have more elements than $A$ and more elements than $B$. Hence the power set of $A cup B$ will contain a set that has more elements than $A$ or $B$, whereas the power set of $A$ and $B$ individually cannot contain sets larger than themselves
    – Keeran Brabazon
    Sep 20 '13 at 17:25








  • 1




    You have to turn proofs, facts, and examples into new good intuition and not the other way around. Unless you want to be forever limited by how true is your personal intuition.
    – mercio
    Sep 21 '13 at 11:06










  • @KeeranBrabazon: Would you like to post an Answer?
    – Greek - Area 51 Proposal
    Oct 9 '13 at 15:32














  • 1




    $ mathcal{P}(A cap B) = mathcal{P}(A) cap mathcal{P}(B)$ means that every subset of $Acap B$ is a subset of $A$ and $B$ and vice versa. $Acup B$ is not a subset of $A$ or $B$. That is, $mathcal{P}(A cup B) neqmathcal{P}(A) cup mathcal{P}(B)$ means that some subset of $Acup B$ is not a subset of $A$ or $B$.
    – Hanul Jeon
    Sep 20 '13 at 16:58








  • 4




    What if my intuition came from proving it?
    – user642796
    Sep 20 '13 at 17:00






  • 1




    Continuing from what @tetori wrote you can consider the case $Aneq B$ then $A cup B$ will have more elements than $A$ and more elements than $B$. Hence the power set of $A cup B$ will contain a set that has more elements than $A$ or $B$, whereas the power set of $A$ and $B$ individually cannot contain sets larger than themselves
    – Keeran Brabazon
    Sep 20 '13 at 17:25








  • 1




    You have to turn proofs, facts, and examples into new good intuition and not the other way around. Unless you want to be forever limited by how true is your personal intuition.
    – mercio
    Sep 21 '13 at 11:06










  • @KeeranBrabazon: Would you like to post an Answer?
    – Greek - Area 51 Proposal
    Oct 9 '13 at 15:32








1




1




$ mathcal{P}(A cap B) = mathcal{P}(A) cap mathcal{P}(B)$ means that every subset of $Acap B$ is a subset of $A$ and $B$ and vice versa. $Acup B$ is not a subset of $A$ or $B$. That is, $mathcal{P}(A cup B) neqmathcal{P}(A) cup mathcal{P}(B)$ means that some subset of $Acup B$ is not a subset of $A$ or $B$.
– Hanul Jeon
Sep 20 '13 at 16:58






$ mathcal{P}(A cap B) = mathcal{P}(A) cap mathcal{P}(B)$ means that every subset of $Acap B$ is a subset of $A$ and $B$ and vice versa. $Acup B$ is not a subset of $A$ or $B$. That is, $mathcal{P}(A cup B) neqmathcal{P}(A) cup mathcal{P}(B)$ means that some subset of $Acup B$ is not a subset of $A$ or $B$.
– Hanul Jeon
Sep 20 '13 at 16:58






4




4




What if my intuition came from proving it?
– user642796
Sep 20 '13 at 17:00




What if my intuition came from proving it?
– user642796
Sep 20 '13 at 17:00




1




1




Continuing from what @tetori wrote you can consider the case $Aneq B$ then $A cup B$ will have more elements than $A$ and more elements than $B$. Hence the power set of $A cup B$ will contain a set that has more elements than $A$ or $B$, whereas the power set of $A$ and $B$ individually cannot contain sets larger than themselves
– Keeran Brabazon
Sep 20 '13 at 17:25






Continuing from what @tetori wrote you can consider the case $Aneq B$ then $A cup B$ will have more elements than $A$ and more elements than $B$. Hence the power set of $A cup B$ will contain a set that has more elements than $A$ or $B$, whereas the power set of $A$ and $B$ individually cannot contain sets larger than themselves
– Keeran Brabazon
Sep 20 '13 at 17:25






1




1




You have to turn proofs, facts, and examples into new good intuition and not the other way around. Unless you want to be forever limited by how true is your personal intuition.
– mercio
Sep 21 '13 at 11:06




You have to turn proofs, facts, and examples into new good intuition and not the other way around. Unless you want to be forever limited by how true is your personal intuition.
– mercio
Sep 21 '13 at 11:06












@KeeranBrabazon: Would you like to post an Answer?
– Greek - Area 51 Proposal
Oct 9 '13 at 15:32




@KeeranBrabazon: Would you like to post an Answer?
– Greek - Area 51 Proposal
Oct 9 '13 at 15:32










4 Answers
4






active

oldest

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4














Intuitively $Acap B$ is a subset of both $A$ and $B$. Hence the power set of $Acap B$ must be in the power set of both $A$ and $B$, as the power set contains all subsets of a given set. If a set $X$ is in the intersection of the power set of $A$ and the power set of $B$ then all of the elements in $X$ are in $A$ and in $B$, i.e. in $A cap B$. Without giving a mathematical proof (as requested) this is a good description as to why $mathcal{P}(Acap B) = mathcal{P}(A) cap mathcal{P}(B)$.



To show that $mathcal{P}(Acup B) neq mathcal{P}(A) cup mathcal{P}(B)$ you can consider the case $A notsubseteq B$ then $A cup B$ will have more elements than $A$ and more elements than $B$. Hence the power set of $A cup B$ will contain a set that has more elements than $A$ or $B$, whereas the power set of $A$ and $B$ individually cannot contain sets larger than themselves.



In your update you write



(UNintuitively) $color{#0070FF}{mathcal{P}(A cup B)} = color{green}{mathcal{P}(A) cup mathcal{P}(B)} cup (A cup B)$.



which is not true. Consider the following counter example



$A = {1},quad B = {2,3} \
mathcal{P}(A) = {emptyset, {1}} \
mathcal{P}(B) = {emptyset, {2}, {3},{2,3}} \
mathcal{P}(A) cup mathcal{P}(B) = {emptyset, {1},{2},{3},{2,3}} \
mathcal{P}(A cup B) = {emptyset, {1},{2},{3},{1,2},{1,3},{2,3},{1,2,3}}$



which shows



$mathcal{P}(A cup B) neq mathcal{P}(A) cup mathcal{P}(B) cup (A cup B)$



The power set of $A cup B$ is the power set of $A$ plus the power set of $B$ plus all the subsets of $A cup B$ which are neither in $A$ nor $B$.






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  • Thank you! +1. I'll try to post my picture later. I'll write again.
    – Greek - Area 51 Proposal
    Oct 12 '13 at 16:52



















2














$newcommand{P}[1]{mathcal P ( #1 )}$Like Arthur Fisher commented, my intuition comes from proving these.



And when trying to prove the first one I quickly see, just by expanding the definitions of $;P cdot;$ and $;cap;$, that this comes down to
$$
X subseteq A cap B ;equiv; X subseteq A :land: X subseteq B
$$
for any $;X;$. And that, using the definitions of $;subseteq;$ and $;cap;$, comes down to the fact that $;forall;$ distributes over $;land;$.



Now the second one similarly comes down to the fact that $;forall;$ does not in general distribute over $;lor;$ (which is the essence of the definition of $;cup;$).



Alternatively, you can of course get an intuition about these statements by drawing Venn diagrams: draw some elements of $;P{A cup B};$, i.e., some subsets of $;A cup B;$, and see how they relate to elements of $;P A;$ and $;P B;$, i.e., subsets of $;A;$ and $;B;$. That will quickly give you an example for the second statement (the inequality).






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  • Thanks. +1. I accepted the answer of a user with fewer reputation points.
    – Greek - Area 51 Proposal
    Oct 12 '13 at 16:55



















2














The statement $$P(A cap B)=P(A) cap P(B)$$



just says that the sets that are included by $A cap B$ are precisely the sets that are included by both $A$ and $B$. Draw a diagram, and you'll see its quite obvious.



On the other hand, the statement $$P(A cup B)=P(A) cup P(B)$$



implies



$$P(A cup B) subseteq P(A) cup P(B)$$



which is just saying that if a set is included by $A cup B$, then its included by at least one of $A$ or $B$. However, $A cup B$ is itself a counterexample, unless $A$ and $B$ are comparable. Again, draw a Venn diagram, and you'll see its fairly obvious, as long as you don't draw one ball completely encircled by the other.



In general, its useful to try to understand what something is actually saying. If you can work out what its saying, often it becomes obvious.






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  • Thanks. +1. I accepted the answer of a user with fewer reputation points.
    – Greek - Area 51 Proposal
    Oct 12 '13 at 16:55



















1














For proving equality of sets (e.g. $S = T$), it's often helpful to prove $S subset T$ and $T subset S$. That is, start by choosing an arbitrary element $s in S$, and show it must be in $T$, then pick $t in T$, and show it is in $S$.



In the first case, you want to show that an arbitrarily chosen subset of $Acap B$ is a subset of $A$ and a subset of $B$, and then vice versa (an arbitrarily chosen set that is a subset of both $A$ and $B$ must be a subset of $A cap B$.)



For the second problem, it may be useful to decide, before attempting to prove, which (if not both) of the inclusions fail, i.e. whether



$$mathcal{P}(A cup B) notsubset mathcal{P}(A)cupmathcal{P}(B),$$



or



$$mathcal{P}(A cup B) notsupset mathcal{P}(A)cupmathcal{P}(B)$$



or possibly both.






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    4 Answers
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    active

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    4 Answers
    4






    active

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    active

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    Intuitively $Acap B$ is a subset of both $A$ and $B$. Hence the power set of $Acap B$ must be in the power set of both $A$ and $B$, as the power set contains all subsets of a given set. If a set $X$ is in the intersection of the power set of $A$ and the power set of $B$ then all of the elements in $X$ are in $A$ and in $B$, i.e. in $A cap B$. Without giving a mathematical proof (as requested) this is a good description as to why $mathcal{P}(Acap B) = mathcal{P}(A) cap mathcal{P}(B)$.



    To show that $mathcal{P}(Acup B) neq mathcal{P}(A) cup mathcal{P}(B)$ you can consider the case $A notsubseteq B$ then $A cup B$ will have more elements than $A$ and more elements than $B$. Hence the power set of $A cup B$ will contain a set that has more elements than $A$ or $B$, whereas the power set of $A$ and $B$ individually cannot contain sets larger than themselves.



    In your update you write



    (UNintuitively) $color{#0070FF}{mathcal{P}(A cup B)} = color{green}{mathcal{P}(A) cup mathcal{P}(B)} cup (A cup B)$.



    which is not true. Consider the following counter example



    $A = {1},quad B = {2,3} \
    mathcal{P}(A) = {emptyset, {1}} \
    mathcal{P}(B) = {emptyset, {2}, {3},{2,3}} \
    mathcal{P}(A) cup mathcal{P}(B) = {emptyset, {1},{2},{3},{2,3}} \
    mathcal{P}(A cup B) = {emptyset, {1},{2},{3},{1,2},{1,3},{2,3},{1,2,3}}$



    which shows



    $mathcal{P}(A cup B) neq mathcal{P}(A) cup mathcal{P}(B) cup (A cup B)$



    The power set of $A cup B$ is the power set of $A$ plus the power set of $B$ plus all the subsets of $A cup B$ which are neither in $A$ nor $B$.






    share|cite|improve this answer























    • Thank you! +1. I'll try to post my picture later. I'll write again.
      – Greek - Area 51 Proposal
      Oct 12 '13 at 16:52
















    4














    Intuitively $Acap B$ is a subset of both $A$ and $B$. Hence the power set of $Acap B$ must be in the power set of both $A$ and $B$, as the power set contains all subsets of a given set. If a set $X$ is in the intersection of the power set of $A$ and the power set of $B$ then all of the elements in $X$ are in $A$ and in $B$, i.e. in $A cap B$. Without giving a mathematical proof (as requested) this is a good description as to why $mathcal{P}(Acap B) = mathcal{P}(A) cap mathcal{P}(B)$.



    To show that $mathcal{P}(Acup B) neq mathcal{P}(A) cup mathcal{P}(B)$ you can consider the case $A notsubseteq B$ then $A cup B$ will have more elements than $A$ and more elements than $B$. Hence the power set of $A cup B$ will contain a set that has more elements than $A$ or $B$, whereas the power set of $A$ and $B$ individually cannot contain sets larger than themselves.



    In your update you write



    (UNintuitively) $color{#0070FF}{mathcal{P}(A cup B)} = color{green}{mathcal{P}(A) cup mathcal{P}(B)} cup (A cup B)$.



    which is not true. Consider the following counter example



    $A = {1},quad B = {2,3} \
    mathcal{P}(A) = {emptyset, {1}} \
    mathcal{P}(B) = {emptyset, {2}, {3},{2,3}} \
    mathcal{P}(A) cup mathcal{P}(B) = {emptyset, {1},{2},{3},{2,3}} \
    mathcal{P}(A cup B) = {emptyset, {1},{2},{3},{1,2},{1,3},{2,3},{1,2,3}}$



    which shows



    $mathcal{P}(A cup B) neq mathcal{P}(A) cup mathcal{P}(B) cup (A cup B)$



    The power set of $A cup B$ is the power set of $A$ plus the power set of $B$ plus all the subsets of $A cup B$ which are neither in $A$ nor $B$.






    share|cite|improve this answer























    • Thank you! +1. I'll try to post my picture later. I'll write again.
      – Greek - Area 51 Proposal
      Oct 12 '13 at 16:52














    4












    4








    4






    Intuitively $Acap B$ is a subset of both $A$ and $B$. Hence the power set of $Acap B$ must be in the power set of both $A$ and $B$, as the power set contains all subsets of a given set. If a set $X$ is in the intersection of the power set of $A$ and the power set of $B$ then all of the elements in $X$ are in $A$ and in $B$, i.e. in $A cap B$. Without giving a mathematical proof (as requested) this is a good description as to why $mathcal{P}(Acap B) = mathcal{P}(A) cap mathcal{P}(B)$.



    To show that $mathcal{P}(Acup B) neq mathcal{P}(A) cup mathcal{P}(B)$ you can consider the case $A notsubseteq B$ then $A cup B$ will have more elements than $A$ and more elements than $B$. Hence the power set of $A cup B$ will contain a set that has more elements than $A$ or $B$, whereas the power set of $A$ and $B$ individually cannot contain sets larger than themselves.



    In your update you write



    (UNintuitively) $color{#0070FF}{mathcal{P}(A cup B)} = color{green}{mathcal{P}(A) cup mathcal{P}(B)} cup (A cup B)$.



    which is not true. Consider the following counter example



    $A = {1},quad B = {2,3} \
    mathcal{P}(A) = {emptyset, {1}} \
    mathcal{P}(B) = {emptyset, {2}, {3},{2,3}} \
    mathcal{P}(A) cup mathcal{P}(B) = {emptyset, {1},{2},{3},{2,3}} \
    mathcal{P}(A cup B) = {emptyset, {1},{2},{3},{1,2},{1,3},{2,3},{1,2,3}}$



    which shows



    $mathcal{P}(A cup B) neq mathcal{P}(A) cup mathcal{P}(B) cup (A cup B)$



    The power set of $A cup B$ is the power set of $A$ plus the power set of $B$ plus all the subsets of $A cup B$ which are neither in $A$ nor $B$.






    share|cite|improve this answer














    Intuitively $Acap B$ is a subset of both $A$ and $B$. Hence the power set of $Acap B$ must be in the power set of both $A$ and $B$, as the power set contains all subsets of a given set. If a set $X$ is in the intersection of the power set of $A$ and the power set of $B$ then all of the elements in $X$ are in $A$ and in $B$, i.e. in $A cap B$. Without giving a mathematical proof (as requested) this is a good description as to why $mathcal{P}(Acap B) = mathcal{P}(A) cap mathcal{P}(B)$.



    To show that $mathcal{P}(Acup B) neq mathcal{P}(A) cup mathcal{P}(B)$ you can consider the case $A notsubseteq B$ then $A cup B$ will have more elements than $A$ and more elements than $B$. Hence the power set of $A cup B$ will contain a set that has more elements than $A$ or $B$, whereas the power set of $A$ and $B$ individually cannot contain sets larger than themselves.



    In your update you write



    (UNintuitively) $color{#0070FF}{mathcal{P}(A cup B)} = color{green}{mathcal{P}(A) cup mathcal{P}(B)} cup (A cup B)$.



    which is not true. Consider the following counter example



    $A = {1},quad B = {2,3} \
    mathcal{P}(A) = {emptyset, {1}} \
    mathcal{P}(B) = {emptyset, {2}, {3},{2,3}} \
    mathcal{P}(A) cup mathcal{P}(B) = {emptyset, {1},{2},{3},{2,3}} \
    mathcal{P}(A cup B) = {emptyset, {1},{2},{3},{1,2},{1,3},{2,3},{1,2,3}}$



    which shows



    $mathcal{P}(A cup B) neq mathcal{P}(A) cup mathcal{P}(B) cup (A cup B)$



    The power set of $A cup B$ is the power set of $A$ plus the power set of $B$ plus all the subsets of $A cup B$ which are neither in $A$ nor $B$.







    share|cite|improve this answer














    share|cite|improve this answer



    share|cite|improve this answer








    edited Jan 4 at 16:32

























    answered Oct 9 '13 at 16:43









    Keeran BrabazonKeeran Brabazon

    687311




    687311












    • Thank you! +1. I'll try to post my picture later. I'll write again.
      – Greek - Area 51 Proposal
      Oct 12 '13 at 16:52


















    • Thank you! +1. I'll try to post my picture later. I'll write again.
      – Greek - Area 51 Proposal
      Oct 12 '13 at 16:52
















    Thank you! +1. I'll try to post my picture later. I'll write again.
    – Greek - Area 51 Proposal
    Oct 12 '13 at 16:52




    Thank you! +1. I'll try to post my picture later. I'll write again.
    – Greek - Area 51 Proposal
    Oct 12 '13 at 16:52











    2














    $newcommand{P}[1]{mathcal P ( #1 )}$Like Arthur Fisher commented, my intuition comes from proving these.



    And when trying to prove the first one I quickly see, just by expanding the definitions of $;P cdot;$ and $;cap;$, that this comes down to
    $$
    X subseteq A cap B ;equiv; X subseteq A :land: X subseteq B
    $$
    for any $;X;$. And that, using the definitions of $;subseteq;$ and $;cap;$, comes down to the fact that $;forall;$ distributes over $;land;$.



    Now the second one similarly comes down to the fact that $;forall;$ does not in general distribute over $;lor;$ (which is the essence of the definition of $;cup;$).



    Alternatively, you can of course get an intuition about these statements by drawing Venn diagrams: draw some elements of $;P{A cup B};$, i.e., some subsets of $;A cup B;$, and see how they relate to elements of $;P A;$ and $;P B;$, i.e., subsets of $;A;$ and $;B;$. That will quickly give you an example for the second statement (the inequality).






    share|cite|improve this answer























    • Thanks. +1. I accepted the answer of a user with fewer reputation points.
      – Greek - Area 51 Proposal
      Oct 12 '13 at 16:55
















    2














    $newcommand{P}[1]{mathcal P ( #1 )}$Like Arthur Fisher commented, my intuition comes from proving these.



    And when trying to prove the first one I quickly see, just by expanding the definitions of $;P cdot;$ and $;cap;$, that this comes down to
    $$
    X subseteq A cap B ;equiv; X subseteq A :land: X subseteq B
    $$
    for any $;X;$. And that, using the definitions of $;subseteq;$ and $;cap;$, comes down to the fact that $;forall;$ distributes over $;land;$.



    Now the second one similarly comes down to the fact that $;forall;$ does not in general distribute over $;lor;$ (which is the essence of the definition of $;cup;$).



    Alternatively, you can of course get an intuition about these statements by drawing Venn diagrams: draw some elements of $;P{A cup B};$, i.e., some subsets of $;A cup B;$, and see how they relate to elements of $;P A;$ and $;P B;$, i.e., subsets of $;A;$ and $;B;$. That will quickly give you an example for the second statement (the inequality).






    share|cite|improve this answer























    • Thanks. +1. I accepted the answer of a user with fewer reputation points.
      – Greek - Area 51 Proposal
      Oct 12 '13 at 16:55














    2












    2








    2






    $newcommand{P}[1]{mathcal P ( #1 )}$Like Arthur Fisher commented, my intuition comes from proving these.



    And when trying to prove the first one I quickly see, just by expanding the definitions of $;P cdot;$ and $;cap;$, that this comes down to
    $$
    X subseteq A cap B ;equiv; X subseteq A :land: X subseteq B
    $$
    for any $;X;$. And that, using the definitions of $;subseteq;$ and $;cap;$, comes down to the fact that $;forall;$ distributes over $;land;$.



    Now the second one similarly comes down to the fact that $;forall;$ does not in general distribute over $;lor;$ (which is the essence of the definition of $;cup;$).



    Alternatively, you can of course get an intuition about these statements by drawing Venn diagrams: draw some elements of $;P{A cup B};$, i.e., some subsets of $;A cup B;$, and see how they relate to elements of $;P A;$ and $;P B;$, i.e., subsets of $;A;$ and $;B;$. That will quickly give you an example for the second statement (the inequality).






    share|cite|improve this answer














    $newcommand{P}[1]{mathcal P ( #1 )}$Like Arthur Fisher commented, my intuition comes from proving these.



    And when trying to prove the first one I quickly see, just by expanding the definitions of $;P cdot;$ and $;cap;$, that this comes down to
    $$
    X subseteq A cap B ;equiv; X subseteq A :land: X subseteq B
    $$
    for any $;X;$. And that, using the definitions of $;subseteq;$ and $;cap;$, comes down to the fact that $;forall;$ distributes over $;land;$.



    Now the second one similarly comes down to the fact that $;forall;$ does not in general distribute over $;lor;$ (which is the essence of the definition of $;cup;$).



    Alternatively, you can of course get an intuition about these statements by drawing Venn diagrams: draw some elements of $;P{A cup B};$, i.e., some subsets of $;A cup B;$, and see how they relate to elements of $;P A;$ and $;P B;$, i.e., subsets of $;A;$ and $;B;$. That will quickly give you an example for the second statement (the inequality).







    share|cite|improve this answer














    share|cite|improve this answer



    share|cite|improve this answer








    edited Apr 13 '17 at 12:20









    Community

    1




    1










    answered Sep 21 '13 at 8:25









    Marnix KloosterMarnix Klooster

    4,20322146




    4,20322146












    • Thanks. +1. I accepted the answer of a user with fewer reputation points.
      – Greek - Area 51 Proposal
      Oct 12 '13 at 16:55


















    • Thanks. +1. I accepted the answer of a user with fewer reputation points.
      – Greek - Area 51 Proposal
      Oct 12 '13 at 16:55
















    Thanks. +1. I accepted the answer of a user with fewer reputation points.
    – Greek - Area 51 Proposal
    Oct 12 '13 at 16:55




    Thanks. +1. I accepted the answer of a user with fewer reputation points.
    – Greek - Area 51 Proposal
    Oct 12 '13 at 16:55











    2














    The statement $$P(A cap B)=P(A) cap P(B)$$



    just says that the sets that are included by $A cap B$ are precisely the sets that are included by both $A$ and $B$. Draw a diagram, and you'll see its quite obvious.



    On the other hand, the statement $$P(A cup B)=P(A) cup P(B)$$



    implies



    $$P(A cup B) subseteq P(A) cup P(B)$$



    which is just saying that if a set is included by $A cup B$, then its included by at least one of $A$ or $B$. However, $A cup B$ is itself a counterexample, unless $A$ and $B$ are comparable. Again, draw a Venn diagram, and you'll see its fairly obvious, as long as you don't draw one ball completely encircled by the other.



    In general, its useful to try to understand what something is actually saying. If you can work out what its saying, often it becomes obvious.






    share|cite|improve this answer























    • Thanks. +1. I accepted the answer of a user with fewer reputation points.
      – Greek - Area 51 Proposal
      Oct 12 '13 at 16:55
















    2














    The statement $$P(A cap B)=P(A) cap P(B)$$



    just says that the sets that are included by $A cap B$ are precisely the sets that are included by both $A$ and $B$. Draw a diagram, and you'll see its quite obvious.



    On the other hand, the statement $$P(A cup B)=P(A) cup P(B)$$



    implies



    $$P(A cup B) subseteq P(A) cup P(B)$$



    which is just saying that if a set is included by $A cup B$, then its included by at least one of $A$ or $B$. However, $A cup B$ is itself a counterexample, unless $A$ and $B$ are comparable. Again, draw a Venn diagram, and you'll see its fairly obvious, as long as you don't draw one ball completely encircled by the other.



    In general, its useful to try to understand what something is actually saying. If you can work out what its saying, often it becomes obvious.






    share|cite|improve this answer























    • Thanks. +1. I accepted the answer of a user with fewer reputation points.
      – Greek - Area 51 Proposal
      Oct 12 '13 at 16:55














    2












    2








    2






    The statement $$P(A cap B)=P(A) cap P(B)$$



    just says that the sets that are included by $A cap B$ are precisely the sets that are included by both $A$ and $B$. Draw a diagram, and you'll see its quite obvious.



    On the other hand, the statement $$P(A cup B)=P(A) cup P(B)$$



    implies



    $$P(A cup B) subseteq P(A) cup P(B)$$



    which is just saying that if a set is included by $A cup B$, then its included by at least one of $A$ or $B$. However, $A cup B$ is itself a counterexample, unless $A$ and $B$ are comparable. Again, draw a Venn diagram, and you'll see its fairly obvious, as long as you don't draw one ball completely encircled by the other.



    In general, its useful to try to understand what something is actually saying. If you can work out what its saying, often it becomes obvious.






    share|cite|improve this answer














    The statement $$P(A cap B)=P(A) cap P(B)$$



    just says that the sets that are included by $A cap B$ are precisely the sets that are included by both $A$ and $B$. Draw a diagram, and you'll see its quite obvious.



    On the other hand, the statement $$P(A cup B)=P(A) cup P(B)$$



    implies



    $$P(A cup B) subseteq P(A) cup P(B)$$



    which is just saying that if a set is included by $A cup B$, then its included by at least one of $A$ or $B$. However, $A cup B$ is itself a counterexample, unless $A$ and $B$ are comparable. Again, draw a Venn diagram, and you'll see its fairly obvious, as long as you don't draw one ball completely encircled by the other.



    In general, its useful to try to understand what something is actually saying. If you can work out what its saying, often it becomes obvious.







    share|cite|improve this answer














    share|cite|improve this answer



    share|cite|improve this answer








    edited Sep 21 '13 at 10:41

























    answered Sep 21 '13 at 10:35









    goblingoblin

    36.7k1159190




    36.7k1159190












    • Thanks. +1. I accepted the answer of a user with fewer reputation points.
      – Greek - Area 51 Proposal
      Oct 12 '13 at 16:55


















    • Thanks. +1. I accepted the answer of a user with fewer reputation points.
      – Greek - Area 51 Proposal
      Oct 12 '13 at 16:55
















    Thanks. +1. I accepted the answer of a user with fewer reputation points.
    – Greek - Area 51 Proposal
    Oct 12 '13 at 16:55




    Thanks. +1. I accepted the answer of a user with fewer reputation points.
    – Greek - Area 51 Proposal
    Oct 12 '13 at 16:55











    1














    For proving equality of sets (e.g. $S = T$), it's often helpful to prove $S subset T$ and $T subset S$. That is, start by choosing an arbitrary element $s in S$, and show it must be in $T$, then pick $t in T$, and show it is in $S$.



    In the first case, you want to show that an arbitrarily chosen subset of $Acap B$ is a subset of $A$ and a subset of $B$, and then vice versa (an arbitrarily chosen set that is a subset of both $A$ and $B$ must be a subset of $A cap B$.)



    For the second problem, it may be useful to decide, before attempting to prove, which (if not both) of the inclusions fail, i.e. whether



    $$mathcal{P}(A cup B) notsubset mathcal{P}(A)cupmathcal{P}(B),$$



    or



    $$mathcal{P}(A cup B) notsupset mathcal{P}(A)cupmathcal{P}(B)$$



    or possibly both.






    share|cite|improve this answer


























      1














      For proving equality of sets (e.g. $S = T$), it's often helpful to prove $S subset T$ and $T subset S$. That is, start by choosing an arbitrary element $s in S$, and show it must be in $T$, then pick $t in T$, and show it is in $S$.



      In the first case, you want to show that an arbitrarily chosen subset of $Acap B$ is a subset of $A$ and a subset of $B$, and then vice versa (an arbitrarily chosen set that is a subset of both $A$ and $B$ must be a subset of $A cap B$.)



      For the second problem, it may be useful to decide, before attempting to prove, which (if not both) of the inclusions fail, i.e. whether



      $$mathcal{P}(A cup B) notsubset mathcal{P}(A)cupmathcal{P}(B),$$



      or



      $$mathcal{P}(A cup B) notsupset mathcal{P}(A)cupmathcal{P}(B)$$



      or possibly both.






      share|cite|improve this answer
























        1












        1








        1






        For proving equality of sets (e.g. $S = T$), it's often helpful to prove $S subset T$ and $T subset S$. That is, start by choosing an arbitrary element $s in S$, and show it must be in $T$, then pick $t in T$, and show it is in $S$.



        In the first case, you want to show that an arbitrarily chosen subset of $Acap B$ is a subset of $A$ and a subset of $B$, and then vice versa (an arbitrarily chosen set that is a subset of both $A$ and $B$ must be a subset of $A cap B$.)



        For the second problem, it may be useful to decide, before attempting to prove, which (if not both) of the inclusions fail, i.e. whether



        $$mathcal{P}(A cup B) notsubset mathcal{P}(A)cupmathcal{P}(B),$$



        or



        $$mathcal{P}(A cup B) notsupset mathcal{P}(A)cupmathcal{P}(B)$$



        or possibly both.






        share|cite|improve this answer












        For proving equality of sets (e.g. $S = T$), it's often helpful to prove $S subset T$ and $T subset S$. That is, start by choosing an arbitrary element $s in S$, and show it must be in $T$, then pick $t in T$, and show it is in $S$.



        In the first case, you want to show that an arbitrarily chosen subset of $Acap B$ is a subset of $A$ and a subset of $B$, and then vice versa (an arbitrarily chosen set that is a subset of both $A$ and $B$ must be a subset of $A cap B$.)



        For the second problem, it may be useful to decide, before attempting to prove, which (if not both) of the inclusions fail, i.e. whether



        $$mathcal{P}(A cup B) notsubset mathcal{P}(A)cupmathcal{P}(B),$$



        or



        $$mathcal{P}(A cup B) notsupset mathcal{P}(A)cupmathcal{P}(B)$$



        or possibly both.







        share|cite|improve this answer












        share|cite|improve this answer



        share|cite|improve this answer










        answered Sep 20 '13 at 17:31









        BaronVTBaronVT

        11.5k11337




        11.5k11337






























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