Identically distributed vs P(X > Y) = P(Y > X)












4














I've two related propositions which seem correct intuitively, but I struggle to prove them properly.



Question 1



Prove or disprove: If $X$ and $Y$ are independent and have identical marginal distributions, then $mathbb{P} (Y > X) = mathbb{P} (X > Y) = 1/2$



Due to independence, the joint PDF of $X$ and $Y$ is the product of their marginal PDF:



$$ begin{align}
mathbb{P} (Y > X) &= int_{-infty}^infty int_x^infty p(x) , p(y) , dy , dx \
mathbb{P} (X > Y) &= int_{-infty}^infty int_y^infty p(x) , p(y) , dx , dy
= int_{-infty}^infty int_x^infty p(y) , p(x) , dy , dx
end{align} $$



The last step is based on the fact that the integral won't change if we simply rename the integration parameters $x$ and $y$ consistently. So we have shown that $mathbb{P} (Y > X) = mathbb{P} (X > Y)$



Side note: Even if $X$ and $Y$ are dependent, this result still holds so long as their joint PDF is exchangeable i.e. $p(x, y) = p(y, x)$





Let $u = y - x$ so that



$$ mathbb{P} (Y > X) = int_{-infty}^infty int_0^infty p(x) , p(u + x) , du , dx $$



I thought of applying Fubini's theorem but it doesn't help to show that it's equal to 1/2, so maybe it's not 1/2?



Alternatively, consider that



$$ mathbb{P} (Y > X) + mathbb{P} (X > Y) + mathbb{P} (Y = X) = 1 $$



If we assume that $mathbb{P} (Y = X) = 0$ then we can conclude that $mathbb{P} (Y > X) = 1/2$. But is this assumption justified?



Question 2



Prove or disprove: If $X$ and $Y$ are independent and $mathbb{P} (Y > X) = mathbb{P} (X > Y)$, then they have identical marginal distributions. If this statement is true, then is it still true if $X$ and $Y$ are dependent?



@Xi'an provided a counter-example. Suppose that



$$ begin{bmatrix} X \ Y end{bmatrix}
sim mathcal{N} left(
begin{bmatrix} mu \ mu end{bmatrix},
begin{bmatrix} sigma_1^2 & c \ c & sigma_2^2 end{bmatrix}
right)$$



Then $X-Y$ and $Y-X$ have the same distribution: $mathcal{N} left(0, sigma_1^2 + sigma_2^2 - 2c right)$ and hence $mathbb{P} (Y - X > 0) = mathbb{P} (X - Y > 0)$



However the marginal distributions of $X sim mathcal{N} left(mu, sigma_1^2right)$ and $Y sim mathcal{N} left(mu, sigma_2^2right)$ may be different. This result holds regardless of whether $X$ and $Y$ are independent.










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  • 2




    One interesting technical point is that if the probability of $X=c$ is $0$ for every value of $c,$ that's not enough to entail that probabilities are given by integrating a density function. The standard counterexample is the Cantor distribution. But more to the point$,ldotsqquad$
    – Michael Hardy
    yesterday










  • $ldots,$is that I probably wouldn't solve this problem by considering such integrals anyway.
    – Michael Hardy
    yesterday






  • 1




    What if X and Y are Bernoulli? Isn’t that a counterexample to P(X=Y)=0?
    – The Laconic
    yesterday












  • When using Fubini's theorem and a density $p(cdot)$ against the Lebesgue measure, $mathbb{P} (Y = X) = 0$, necessarily.
    – Xi'an
    yesterday
















4














I've two related propositions which seem correct intuitively, but I struggle to prove them properly.



Question 1



Prove or disprove: If $X$ and $Y$ are independent and have identical marginal distributions, then $mathbb{P} (Y > X) = mathbb{P} (X > Y) = 1/2$



Due to independence, the joint PDF of $X$ and $Y$ is the product of their marginal PDF:



$$ begin{align}
mathbb{P} (Y > X) &= int_{-infty}^infty int_x^infty p(x) , p(y) , dy , dx \
mathbb{P} (X > Y) &= int_{-infty}^infty int_y^infty p(x) , p(y) , dx , dy
= int_{-infty}^infty int_x^infty p(y) , p(x) , dy , dx
end{align} $$



The last step is based on the fact that the integral won't change if we simply rename the integration parameters $x$ and $y$ consistently. So we have shown that $mathbb{P} (Y > X) = mathbb{P} (X > Y)$



Side note: Even if $X$ and $Y$ are dependent, this result still holds so long as their joint PDF is exchangeable i.e. $p(x, y) = p(y, x)$





Let $u = y - x$ so that



$$ mathbb{P} (Y > X) = int_{-infty}^infty int_0^infty p(x) , p(u + x) , du , dx $$



I thought of applying Fubini's theorem but it doesn't help to show that it's equal to 1/2, so maybe it's not 1/2?



Alternatively, consider that



$$ mathbb{P} (Y > X) + mathbb{P} (X > Y) + mathbb{P} (Y = X) = 1 $$



If we assume that $mathbb{P} (Y = X) = 0$ then we can conclude that $mathbb{P} (Y > X) = 1/2$. But is this assumption justified?



Question 2



Prove or disprove: If $X$ and $Y$ are independent and $mathbb{P} (Y > X) = mathbb{P} (X > Y)$, then they have identical marginal distributions. If this statement is true, then is it still true if $X$ and $Y$ are dependent?



@Xi'an provided a counter-example. Suppose that



$$ begin{bmatrix} X \ Y end{bmatrix}
sim mathcal{N} left(
begin{bmatrix} mu \ mu end{bmatrix},
begin{bmatrix} sigma_1^2 & c \ c & sigma_2^2 end{bmatrix}
right)$$



Then $X-Y$ and $Y-X$ have the same distribution: $mathcal{N} left(0, sigma_1^2 + sigma_2^2 - 2c right)$ and hence $mathbb{P} (Y - X > 0) = mathbb{P} (X - Y > 0)$



However the marginal distributions of $X sim mathcal{N} left(mu, sigma_1^2right)$ and $Y sim mathcal{N} left(mu, sigma_2^2right)$ may be different. This result holds regardless of whether $X$ and $Y$ are independent.










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  • 2




    One interesting technical point is that if the probability of $X=c$ is $0$ for every value of $c,$ that's not enough to entail that probabilities are given by integrating a density function. The standard counterexample is the Cantor distribution. But more to the point$,ldotsqquad$
    – Michael Hardy
    yesterday










  • $ldots,$is that I probably wouldn't solve this problem by considering such integrals anyway.
    – Michael Hardy
    yesterday






  • 1




    What if X and Y are Bernoulli? Isn’t that a counterexample to P(X=Y)=0?
    – The Laconic
    yesterday












  • When using Fubini's theorem and a density $p(cdot)$ against the Lebesgue measure, $mathbb{P} (Y = X) = 0$, necessarily.
    – Xi'an
    yesterday














4












4








4


1





I've two related propositions which seem correct intuitively, but I struggle to prove them properly.



Question 1



Prove or disprove: If $X$ and $Y$ are independent and have identical marginal distributions, then $mathbb{P} (Y > X) = mathbb{P} (X > Y) = 1/2$



Due to independence, the joint PDF of $X$ and $Y$ is the product of their marginal PDF:



$$ begin{align}
mathbb{P} (Y > X) &= int_{-infty}^infty int_x^infty p(x) , p(y) , dy , dx \
mathbb{P} (X > Y) &= int_{-infty}^infty int_y^infty p(x) , p(y) , dx , dy
= int_{-infty}^infty int_x^infty p(y) , p(x) , dy , dx
end{align} $$



The last step is based on the fact that the integral won't change if we simply rename the integration parameters $x$ and $y$ consistently. So we have shown that $mathbb{P} (Y > X) = mathbb{P} (X > Y)$



Side note: Even if $X$ and $Y$ are dependent, this result still holds so long as their joint PDF is exchangeable i.e. $p(x, y) = p(y, x)$





Let $u = y - x$ so that



$$ mathbb{P} (Y > X) = int_{-infty}^infty int_0^infty p(x) , p(u + x) , du , dx $$



I thought of applying Fubini's theorem but it doesn't help to show that it's equal to 1/2, so maybe it's not 1/2?



Alternatively, consider that



$$ mathbb{P} (Y > X) + mathbb{P} (X > Y) + mathbb{P} (Y = X) = 1 $$



If we assume that $mathbb{P} (Y = X) = 0$ then we can conclude that $mathbb{P} (Y > X) = 1/2$. But is this assumption justified?



Question 2



Prove or disprove: If $X$ and $Y$ are independent and $mathbb{P} (Y > X) = mathbb{P} (X > Y)$, then they have identical marginal distributions. If this statement is true, then is it still true if $X$ and $Y$ are dependent?



@Xi'an provided a counter-example. Suppose that



$$ begin{bmatrix} X \ Y end{bmatrix}
sim mathcal{N} left(
begin{bmatrix} mu \ mu end{bmatrix},
begin{bmatrix} sigma_1^2 & c \ c & sigma_2^2 end{bmatrix}
right)$$



Then $X-Y$ and $Y-X$ have the same distribution: $mathcal{N} left(0, sigma_1^2 + sigma_2^2 - 2c right)$ and hence $mathbb{P} (Y - X > 0) = mathbb{P} (X - Y > 0)$



However the marginal distributions of $X sim mathcal{N} left(mu, sigma_1^2right)$ and $Y sim mathcal{N} left(mu, sigma_2^2right)$ may be different. This result holds regardless of whether $X$ and $Y$ are independent.










share|cite|improve this question















I've two related propositions which seem correct intuitively, but I struggle to prove them properly.



Question 1



Prove or disprove: If $X$ and $Y$ are independent and have identical marginal distributions, then $mathbb{P} (Y > X) = mathbb{P} (X > Y) = 1/2$



Due to independence, the joint PDF of $X$ and $Y$ is the product of their marginal PDF:



$$ begin{align}
mathbb{P} (Y > X) &= int_{-infty}^infty int_x^infty p(x) , p(y) , dy , dx \
mathbb{P} (X > Y) &= int_{-infty}^infty int_y^infty p(x) , p(y) , dx , dy
= int_{-infty}^infty int_x^infty p(y) , p(x) , dy , dx
end{align} $$



The last step is based on the fact that the integral won't change if we simply rename the integration parameters $x$ and $y$ consistently. So we have shown that $mathbb{P} (Y > X) = mathbb{P} (X > Y)$



Side note: Even if $X$ and $Y$ are dependent, this result still holds so long as their joint PDF is exchangeable i.e. $p(x, y) = p(y, x)$





Let $u = y - x$ so that



$$ mathbb{P} (Y > X) = int_{-infty}^infty int_0^infty p(x) , p(u + x) , du , dx $$



I thought of applying Fubini's theorem but it doesn't help to show that it's equal to 1/2, so maybe it's not 1/2?



Alternatively, consider that



$$ mathbb{P} (Y > X) + mathbb{P} (X > Y) + mathbb{P} (Y = X) = 1 $$



If we assume that $mathbb{P} (Y = X) = 0$ then we can conclude that $mathbb{P} (Y > X) = 1/2$. But is this assumption justified?



Question 2



Prove or disprove: If $X$ and $Y$ are independent and $mathbb{P} (Y > X) = mathbb{P} (X > Y)$, then they have identical marginal distributions. If this statement is true, then is it still true if $X$ and $Y$ are dependent?



@Xi'an provided a counter-example. Suppose that



$$ begin{bmatrix} X \ Y end{bmatrix}
sim mathcal{N} left(
begin{bmatrix} mu \ mu end{bmatrix},
begin{bmatrix} sigma_1^2 & c \ c & sigma_2^2 end{bmatrix}
right)$$



Then $X-Y$ and $Y-X$ have the same distribution: $mathcal{N} left(0, sigma_1^2 + sigma_2^2 - 2c right)$ and hence $mathbb{P} (Y - X > 0) = mathbb{P} (X - Y > 0)$



However the marginal distributions of $X sim mathcal{N} left(mu, sigma_1^2right)$ and $Y sim mathcal{N} left(mu, sigma_2^2right)$ may be different. This result holds regardless of whether $X$ and $Y$ are independent.







joint-distribution iid symmetry






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edited yesterday







farmer

















asked yesterday









farmerfarmer

637




637








  • 2




    One interesting technical point is that if the probability of $X=c$ is $0$ for every value of $c,$ that's not enough to entail that probabilities are given by integrating a density function. The standard counterexample is the Cantor distribution. But more to the point$,ldotsqquad$
    – Michael Hardy
    yesterday










  • $ldots,$is that I probably wouldn't solve this problem by considering such integrals anyway.
    – Michael Hardy
    yesterday






  • 1




    What if X and Y are Bernoulli? Isn’t that a counterexample to P(X=Y)=0?
    – The Laconic
    yesterday












  • When using Fubini's theorem and a density $p(cdot)$ against the Lebesgue measure, $mathbb{P} (Y = X) = 0$, necessarily.
    – Xi'an
    yesterday














  • 2




    One interesting technical point is that if the probability of $X=c$ is $0$ for every value of $c,$ that's not enough to entail that probabilities are given by integrating a density function. The standard counterexample is the Cantor distribution. But more to the point$,ldotsqquad$
    – Michael Hardy
    yesterday










  • $ldots,$is that I probably wouldn't solve this problem by considering such integrals anyway.
    – Michael Hardy
    yesterday






  • 1




    What if X and Y are Bernoulli? Isn’t that a counterexample to P(X=Y)=0?
    – The Laconic
    yesterday












  • When using Fubini's theorem and a density $p(cdot)$ against the Lebesgue measure, $mathbb{P} (Y = X) = 0$, necessarily.
    – Xi'an
    yesterday








2




2




One interesting technical point is that if the probability of $X=c$ is $0$ for every value of $c,$ that's not enough to entail that probabilities are given by integrating a density function. The standard counterexample is the Cantor distribution. But more to the point$,ldotsqquad$
– Michael Hardy
yesterday




One interesting technical point is that if the probability of $X=c$ is $0$ for every value of $c,$ that's not enough to entail that probabilities are given by integrating a density function. The standard counterexample is the Cantor distribution. But more to the point$,ldotsqquad$
– Michael Hardy
yesterday












$ldots,$is that I probably wouldn't solve this problem by considering such integrals anyway.
– Michael Hardy
yesterday




$ldots,$is that I probably wouldn't solve this problem by considering such integrals anyway.
– Michael Hardy
yesterday




1




1




What if X and Y are Bernoulli? Isn’t that a counterexample to P(X=Y)=0?
– The Laconic
yesterday






What if X and Y are Bernoulli? Isn’t that a counterexample to P(X=Y)=0?
– The Laconic
yesterday














When using Fubini's theorem and a density $p(cdot)$ against the Lebesgue measure, $mathbb{P} (Y = X) = 0$, necessarily.
– Xi'an
yesterday




When using Fubini's theorem and a density $p(cdot)$ against the Lebesgue measure, $mathbb{P} (Y = X) = 0$, necessarily.
– Xi'an
yesterday










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















4















This answer is written under the assumption that $mathbb{P}(Y=X)=0$
which was part of the original wording of the question.




Question 1: A sufficient condition for$$mathbb{P}(X<Y)=mathbb{P}(Y<X)tag{1}$$is that $X$ and $Y$ are exchangeable, that is, that $(X,Y)$ and $(Y,X)$ have the same joint distribution. And obviously
$$mathbb{P}(X<Y)=mathbb{P}(Y<X)=1/2$$since they sum up to one. (In the alternative case that $mathbb{P}(Y=X)>0$ this is obviously no longer true.)



Question 2: Take a bivariate normal vector $(X,Y)$ with mean $(mu,mu)$. Then $X-Y$ and $Y-X$ are identically distributed, no matter what the correlation between $X$ and $Y$, and no matter what the variances of $X$ and $Y$ are, and therefore (1) holds. The conjecture is thus false.






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    2














    I will show that the distribution of the pair $(X,Y)$ is the same as the distribution of the pair $(Y,X).$



    That two random variables $X,Y$ are independent means that for every pair of measurable sets $A,B$ the events $[Xin A], [Yin B]$ are independent. In particular for any two numbers $x,y$ the events $[Xle x], [Yle y]$ are independent, so $F_{X,Y}(x,y) = F_X(x)cdot F_Y(y).$



    And the distribution of the pair $(X,Y)$ is completely determined by the joint c.d.f.



    Since it is given that $F_X=F_Y,$ we can write $F_{X,Y}(x,y) = F_X(x)cdot F_X(y).$



    This is symmetric as a function of $x$ and $y,$ i.e. it remains the same if $x$ and $y$ are interchanged.



    But interchanging $x$ and $y$ in $F_{X,Y}(x,y)$ is the same as interchanging $X$ and $Y,$ since
    $$
    F_{X,Y}(x,y) = Pr(Xle x & Yle y).
    $$



    Therefore (the main point):



    The distribution of the pair $(X,Y)$ is the same as the distribution of the pair $(Y,X).$






    share|cite|improve this answer























    • I don't think "interchanging x and y in $F_{X,Y} (x,y)$ is the same as interchanging X and Y" because P(X ≤ x, Y ≤ y) ≠ P(X ≤ y, Y ≤ x) in general. Even if X and Y are independent, P(X ≤ x) P(Y ≤ y) ≠ P(X ≤ y) P(Y ≤ x) unless they are also identically distributed.
      – farmer
      12 hours ago










    • @farmer : Start with $Pr(Xle x & Yle y)$ and interchange $x$ and $y,$ and you get $Pr(Xle y & Yle x).$ But if you start with the same thing and interchange $X$ and $Y,$ then you get $Pr(Yle x & Xle y).$ The claim, then, is that $Pr(Xle y & Yle x)$ is the same as $Pr(Yle x & Xle y). qquad$
      – Michael Hardy
      4 hours ago











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    2 Answers
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    active

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    4















    This answer is written under the assumption that $mathbb{P}(Y=X)=0$
    which was part of the original wording of the question.




    Question 1: A sufficient condition for$$mathbb{P}(X<Y)=mathbb{P}(Y<X)tag{1}$$is that $X$ and $Y$ are exchangeable, that is, that $(X,Y)$ and $(Y,X)$ have the same joint distribution. And obviously
    $$mathbb{P}(X<Y)=mathbb{P}(Y<X)=1/2$$since they sum up to one. (In the alternative case that $mathbb{P}(Y=X)>0$ this is obviously no longer true.)



    Question 2: Take a bivariate normal vector $(X,Y)$ with mean $(mu,mu)$. Then $X-Y$ and $Y-X$ are identically distributed, no matter what the correlation between $X$ and $Y$, and no matter what the variances of $X$ and $Y$ are, and therefore (1) holds. The conjecture is thus false.






    share|cite|improve this answer




























      4















      This answer is written under the assumption that $mathbb{P}(Y=X)=0$
      which was part of the original wording of the question.




      Question 1: A sufficient condition for$$mathbb{P}(X<Y)=mathbb{P}(Y<X)tag{1}$$is that $X$ and $Y$ are exchangeable, that is, that $(X,Y)$ and $(Y,X)$ have the same joint distribution. And obviously
      $$mathbb{P}(X<Y)=mathbb{P}(Y<X)=1/2$$since they sum up to one. (In the alternative case that $mathbb{P}(Y=X)>0$ this is obviously no longer true.)



      Question 2: Take a bivariate normal vector $(X,Y)$ with mean $(mu,mu)$. Then $X-Y$ and $Y-X$ are identically distributed, no matter what the correlation between $X$ and $Y$, and no matter what the variances of $X$ and $Y$ are, and therefore (1) holds. The conjecture is thus false.






      share|cite|improve this answer


























        4












        4








        4







        This answer is written under the assumption that $mathbb{P}(Y=X)=0$
        which was part of the original wording of the question.




        Question 1: A sufficient condition for$$mathbb{P}(X<Y)=mathbb{P}(Y<X)tag{1}$$is that $X$ and $Y$ are exchangeable, that is, that $(X,Y)$ and $(Y,X)$ have the same joint distribution. And obviously
        $$mathbb{P}(X<Y)=mathbb{P}(Y<X)=1/2$$since they sum up to one. (In the alternative case that $mathbb{P}(Y=X)>0$ this is obviously no longer true.)



        Question 2: Take a bivariate normal vector $(X,Y)$ with mean $(mu,mu)$. Then $X-Y$ and $Y-X$ are identically distributed, no matter what the correlation between $X$ and $Y$, and no matter what the variances of $X$ and $Y$ are, and therefore (1) holds. The conjecture is thus false.






        share|cite|improve this answer















        This answer is written under the assumption that $mathbb{P}(Y=X)=0$
        which was part of the original wording of the question.




        Question 1: A sufficient condition for$$mathbb{P}(X<Y)=mathbb{P}(Y<X)tag{1}$$is that $X$ and $Y$ are exchangeable, that is, that $(X,Y)$ and $(Y,X)$ have the same joint distribution. And obviously
        $$mathbb{P}(X<Y)=mathbb{P}(Y<X)=1/2$$since they sum up to one. (In the alternative case that $mathbb{P}(Y=X)>0$ this is obviously no longer true.)



        Question 2: Take a bivariate normal vector $(X,Y)$ with mean $(mu,mu)$. Then $X-Y$ and $Y-X$ are identically distributed, no matter what the correlation between $X$ and $Y$, and no matter what the variances of $X$ and $Y$ are, and therefore (1) holds. The conjecture is thus false.







        share|cite|improve this answer














        share|cite|improve this answer



        share|cite|improve this answer








        edited 12 hours ago

























        answered yesterday









        Xi'anXi'an

        54.1k691350




        54.1k691350

























            2














            I will show that the distribution of the pair $(X,Y)$ is the same as the distribution of the pair $(Y,X).$



            That two random variables $X,Y$ are independent means that for every pair of measurable sets $A,B$ the events $[Xin A], [Yin B]$ are independent. In particular for any two numbers $x,y$ the events $[Xle x], [Yle y]$ are independent, so $F_{X,Y}(x,y) = F_X(x)cdot F_Y(y).$



            And the distribution of the pair $(X,Y)$ is completely determined by the joint c.d.f.



            Since it is given that $F_X=F_Y,$ we can write $F_{X,Y}(x,y) = F_X(x)cdot F_X(y).$



            This is symmetric as a function of $x$ and $y,$ i.e. it remains the same if $x$ and $y$ are interchanged.



            But interchanging $x$ and $y$ in $F_{X,Y}(x,y)$ is the same as interchanging $X$ and $Y,$ since
            $$
            F_{X,Y}(x,y) = Pr(Xle x & Yle y).
            $$



            Therefore (the main point):



            The distribution of the pair $(X,Y)$ is the same as the distribution of the pair $(Y,X).$






            share|cite|improve this answer























            • I don't think "interchanging x and y in $F_{X,Y} (x,y)$ is the same as interchanging X and Y" because P(X ≤ x, Y ≤ y) ≠ P(X ≤ y, Y ≤ x) in general. Even if X and Y are independent, P(X ≤ x) P(Y ≤ y) ≠ P(X ≤ y) P(Y ≤ x) unless they are also identically distributed.
              – farmer
              12 hours ago










            • @farmer : Start with $Pr(Xle x & Yle y)$ and interchange $x$ and $y,$ and you get $Pr(Xle y & Yle x).$ But if you start with the same thing and interchange $X$ and $Y,$ then you get $Pr(Yle x & Xle y).$ The claim, then, is that $Pr(Xle y & Yle x)$ is the same as $Pr(Yle x & Xle y). qquad$
              – Michael Hardy
              4 hours ago
















            2














            I will show that the distribution of the pair $(X,Y)$ is the same as the distribution of the pair $(Y,X).$



            That two random variables $X,Y$ are independent means that for every pair of measurable sets $A,B$ the events $[Xin A], [Yin B]$ are independent. In particular for any two numbers $x,y$ the events $[Xle x], [Yle y]$ are independent, so $F_{X,Y}(x,y) = F_X(x)cdot F_Y(y).$



            And the distribution of the pair $(X,Y)$ is completely determined by the joint c.d.f.



            Since it is given that $F_X=F_Y,$ we can write $F_{X,Y}(x,y) = F_X(x)cdot F_X(y).$



            This is symmetric as a function of $x$ and $y,$ i.e. it remains the same if $x$ and $y$ are interchanged.



            But interchanging $x$ and $y$ in $F_{X,Y}(x,y)$ is the same as interchanging $X$ and $Y,$ since
            $$
            F_{X,Y}(x,y) = Pr(Xle x & Yle y).
            $$



            Therefore (the main point):



            The distribution of the pair $(X,Y)$ is the same as the distribution of the pair $(Y,X).$






            share|cite|improve this answer























            • I don't think "interchanging x and y in $F_{X,Y} (x,y)$ is the same as interchanging X and Y" because P(X ≤ x, Y ≤ y) ≠ P(X ≤ y, Y ≤ x) in general. Even if X and Y are independent, P(X ≤ x) P(Y ≤ y) ≠ P(X ≤ y) P(Y ≤ x) unless they are also identically distributed.
              – farmer
              12 hours ago










            • @farmer : Start with $Pr(Xle x & Yle y)$ and interchange $x$ and $y,$ and you get $Pr(Xle y & Yle x).$ But if you start with the same thing and interchange $X$ and $Y,$ then you get $Pr(Yle x & Xle y).$ The claim, then, is that $Pr(Xle y & Yle x)$ is the same as $Pr(Yle x & Xle y). qquad$
              – Michael Hardy
              4 hours ago














            2












            2








            2






            I will show that the distribution of the pair $(X,Y)$ is the same as the distribution of the pair $(Y,X).$



            That two random variables $X,Y$ are independent means that for every pair of measurable sets $A,B$ the events $[Xin A], [Yin B]$ are independent. In particular for any two numbers $x,y$ the events $[Xle x], [Yle y]$ are independent, so $F_{X,Y}(x,y) = F_X(x)cdot F_Y(y).$



            And the distribution of the pair $(X,Y)$ is completely determined by the joint c.d.f.



            Since it is given that $F_X=F_Y,$ we can write $F_{X,Y}(x,y) = F_X(x)cdot F_X(y).$



            This is symmetric as a function of $x$ and $y,$ i.e. it remains the same if $x$ and $y$ are interchanged.



            But interchanging $x$ and $y$ in $F_{X,Y}(x,y)$ is the same as interchanging $X$ and $Y,$ since
            $$
            F_{X,Y}(x,y) = Pr(Xle x & Yle y).
            $$



            Therefore (the main point):



            The distribution of the pair $(X,Y)$ is the same as the distribution of the pair $(Y,X).$






            share|cite|improve this answer














            I will show that the distribution of the pair $(X,Y)$ is the same as the distribution of the pair $(Y,X).$



            That two random variables $X,Y$ are independent means that for every pair of measurable sets $A,B$ the events $[Xin A], [Yin B]$ are independent. In particular for any two numbers $x,y$ the events $[Xle x], [Yle y]$ are independent, so $F_{X,Y}(x,y) = F_X(x)cdot F_Y(y).$



            And the distribution of the pair $(X,Y)$ is completely determined by the joint c.d.f.



            Since it is given that $F_X=F_Y,$ we can write $F_{X,Y}(x,y) = F_X(x)cdot F_X(y).$



            This is symmetric as a function of $x$ and $y,$ i.e. it remains the same if $x$ and $y$ are interchanged.



            But interchanging $x$ and $y$ in $F_{X,Y}(x,y)$ is the same as interchanging $X$ and $Y,$ since
            $$
            F_{X,Y}(x,y) = Pr(Xle x & Yle y).
            $$



            Therefore (the main point):



            The distribution of the pair $(X,Y)$ is the same as the distribution of the pair $(Y,X).$







            share|cite|improve this answer














            share|cite|improve this answer



            share|cite|improve this answer








            edited yesterday

























            answered yesterday









            Michael HardyMichael Hardy

            3,6551430




            3,6551430












            • I don't think "interchanging x and y in $F_{X,Y} (x,y)$ is the same as interchanging X and Y" because P(X ≤ x, Y ≤ y) ≠ P(X ≤ y, Y ≤ x) in general. Even if X and Y are independent, P(X ≤ x) P(Y ≤ y) ≠ P(X ≤ y) P(Y ≤ x) unless they are also identically distributed.
              – farmer
              12 hours ago










            • @farmer : Start with $Pr(Xle x & Yle y)$ and interchange $x$ and $y,$ and you get $Pr(Xle y & Yle x).$ But if you start with the same thing and interchange $X$ and $Y,$ then you get $Pr(Yle x & Xle y).$ The claim, then, is that $Pr(Xle y & Yle x)$ is the same as $Pr(Yle x & Xle y). qquad$
              – Michael Hardy
              4 hours ago


















            • I don't think "interchanging x and y in $F_{X,Y} (x,y)$ is the same as interchanging X and Y" because P(X ≤ x, Y ≤ y) ≠ P(X ≤ y, Y ≤ x) in general. Even if X and Y are independent, P(X ≤ x) P(Y ≤ y) ≠ P(X ≤ y) P(Y ≤ x) unless they are also identically distributed.
              – farmer
              12 hours ago










            • @farmer : Start with $Pr(Xle x & Yle y)$ and interchange $x$ and $y,$ and you get $Pr(Xle y & Yle x).$ But if you start with the same thing and interchange $X$ and $Y,$ then you get $Pr(Yle x & Xle y).$ The claim, then, is that $Pr(Xle y & Yle x)$ is the same as $Pr(Yle x & Xle y). qquad$
              – Michael Hardy
              4 hours ago
















            I don't think "interchanging x and y in $F_{X,Y} (x,y)$ is the same as interchanging X and Y" because P(X ≤ x, Y ≤ y) ≠ P(X ≤ y, Y ≤ x) in general. Even if X and Y are independent, P(X ≤ x) P(Y ≤ y) ≠ P(X ≤ y) P(Y ≤ x) unless they are also identically distributed.
            – farmer
            12 hours ago




            I don't think "interchanging x and y in $F_{X,Y} (x,y)$ is the same as interchanging X and Y" because P(X ≤ x, Y ≤ y) ≠ P(X ≤ y, Y ≤ x) in general. Even if X and Y are independent, P(X ≤ x) P(Y ≤ y) ≠ P(X ≤ y) P(Y ≤ x) unless they are also identically distributed.
            – farmer
            12 hours ago












            @farmer : Start with $Pr(Xle x & Yle y)$ and interchange $x$ and $y,$ and you get $Pr(Xle y & Yle x).$ But if you start with the same thing and interchange $X$ and $Y,$ then you get $Pr(Yle x & Xle y).$ The claim, then, is that $Pr(Xle y & Yle x)$ is the same as $Pr(Yle x & Xle y). qquad$
            – Michael Hardy
            4 hours ago




            @farmer : Start with $Pr(Xle x & Yle y)$ and interchange $x$ and $y,$ and you get $Pr(Xle y & Yle x).$ But if you start with the same thing and interchange $X$ and $Y,$ then you get $Pr(Yle x & Xle y).$ The claim, then, is that $Pr(Xle y & Yle x)$ is the same as $Pr(Yle x & Xle y). qquad$
            – Michael Hardy
            4 hours ago


















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