How to avoid following the rhythm while soloing or improvising melodies?












5














I'm enjoying improvising melodies over simple chord progressions. I record a simple strumming pattern and bass line with my loop station and just play. However, no matter how creative I find my notes, I'm finding it really hard not to play along with the rhythm of the bass line or the strumming.



What can I think about or change about my perspective to "free" my rhythm and be able to improvise the rhythm as well, play notes on the off-beats etc?



I have no problem playing "unrelated" rhythms if I practice them beforehand, but as soon as I'm improvising I fall back to hit the notes along with the bass or strum.










share|improve this question



























    5














    I'm enjoying improvising melodies over simple chord progressions. I record a simple strumming pattern and bass line with my loop station and just play. However, no matter how creative I find my notes, I'm finding it really hard not to play along with the rhythm of the bass line or the strumming.



    What can I think about or change about my perspective to "free" my rhythm and be able to improvise the rhythm as well, play notes on the off-beats etc?



    I have no problem playing "unrelated" rhythms if I practice them beforehand, but as soon as I'm improvising I fall back to hit the notes along with the bass or strum.










    share|improve this question

























      5












      5








      5







      I'm enjoying improvising melodies over simple chord progressions. I record a simple strumming pattern and bass line with my loop station and just play. However, no matter how creative I find my notes, I'm finding it really hard not to play along with the rhythm of the bass line or the strumming.



      What can I think about or change about my perspective to "free" my rhythm and be able to improvise the rhythm as well, play notes on the off-beats etc?



      I have no problem playing "unrelated" rhythms if I practice them beforehand, but as soon as I'm improvising I fall back to hit the notes along with the bass or strum.










      share|improve this question













      I'm enjoying improvising melodies over simple chord progressions. I record a simple strumming pattern and bass line with my loop station and just play. However, no matter how creative I find my notes, I'm finding it really hard not to play along with the rhythm of the bass line or the strumming.



      What can I think about or change about my perspective to "free" my rhythm and be able to improvise the rhythm as well, play notes on the off-beats etc?



      I have no problem playing "unrelated" rhythms if I practice them beforehand, but as soon as I'm improvising I fall back to hit the notes along with the bass or strum.







      guitar rhythm improvisation






      share|improve this question













      share|improve this question











      share|improve this question




      share|improve this question










      asked 2 days ago









      AnnaAnna

      623313




      623313






















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          6














          Go back to playing basic notes - the pentatonic scale will do. Se t the metronome for around 80-90 bpm. Play notes on each beat. So far, so simple! Then play on beats 1,2 3, not 4. Then try beats 1,2 not 3 but 4, all for several bars. There are several different combinations to try, using similar ideas. Then try 1,2,3,4, 1-3- in two bar sequences. The idea is keep it simple, but change timing. Play only on 2,3 and 4 - nod your heard where 1 is.



          Then re-set metronome to 60-70 bpm, and play quavers - all 8 in a bar. The tune doesn't matter, yet, but keep moving. Then miss out on maybe notes nos. 3 and 6, or 2 and 7. There are many, many different combinations, and writing down their rhythms in some way will stop you repeating! If it's easier, keep to only 3 or 4 different notes.



          None of this will sound too musical, that's not the point.



          Then imagine the metronome is not playing what most people imagine, beats 1,2,3 and 4, but the off beats - the & in between. Play against that. Go back to the 8s, and make beat 1 a root note, every two bars - all the time playing to one chord/set of pent. notes. After that, you can come up with more complex stuff, playing the changes too. That's because you'll know where you are in the bar, and then will only use the backing track as a guide.



          There's enough variety in rhythms there to play without repeating a pattern for months!






          share|improve this answer





























            2














            Good question. I've thought about ways to make my own solos rhythmically more varied for a long time, and so far I've come up with the following tricks:




            • Sing the solo at the same time, singing and playing in unison. Rhythmically, but why not the pitches as well. At least for me, tying my playing with the "speaking part" of my brains makes me play different things, and makes me switch away from rhythm/accompaniment mode.

            • A bonus feature for singing or at least exhaling along with your solo is, your phrases become more lyrical and human, like lines of a poem.

            • Pick an existing line of text and sing or "sing" its rhythm with your instrument. Or maybe even try to mimic your natural way of speaking. Any line of text is ok. Try "Hello audience! This is my way of soloing. Would you like fries with that?"

            • "Sing" in another language! Different languages have different emphasis in rhythmic emphasis, dynamics and intonation (pitch variations). "Smörgåsbord med fisk, sauerkraut och bra musik."

            • Think that you're playing another instrument's line from a different genre, like some latin percussion rhythms.

            • Practice and play polyrhythms that repeat like every 7/8ths. They will help you break the rhythm pattern for sure. :)

            • Imagine that you're playing a drum solo. Listen to drum solos and pick up rhythmic ideas.

            • Syncopate deliberately, mute or play a "tied note" over every beat.

            • Pick an existing song melody you like and just change the pitches.

            • Listen to and learn to play existing solos, mimic whatever you can remember from them.






            share|improve this answer





















            • I've used similar tactics with students, like having a conversation, first speaking the words, then repeating with the same timing in a certain key. Then it's my turn, and so on. Takes a bit of getting in to, but leads nicely into sharing solos, trading fours, etc.
              – Tim
              2 days ago



















            1














            I think this may be a common issue. When we Improv we are drawing on what we know, what is muscle memory. I would guess that your strumming patterns are some of the most ingrained patterns. I don't know how many years you've been practicing or playing but if you're like most people you started playing songs you like, drilled them over and over until they were memorized, and maybe embellished them a little.



            That last part IS IMPROV. For most people improvisation = variation on a theme. Although that is not the only school of thought. You may have taken lessons are worked though a standard method book, some recital pieces etc.



            One common misconception is that you cannot improvise if you are playing rehearsed lines. This is far from true and in fact (in my experience) one need to go through a period of time where you (1) play trough other people's solos, (2) transcribe solos you like, (3) write your own solos and licks, all before you can really improvise freely without a preconceived rehearsed idea of what you'll play. Through this process you can explore new melodic ideas as well as new rhythmic ideas, phrasing, etc. In time you will begin to develop your own unique style that isn't rehearsed. The irony, imo, is that the key to being unrehearsed is years of rehearsing.






            share|improve this answer





















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              3 Answers
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              6














              Go back to playing basic notes - the pentatonic scale will do. Se t the metronome for around 80-90 bpm. Play notes on each beat. So far, so simple! Then play on beats 1,2 3, not 4. Then try beats 1,2 not 3 but 4, all for several bars. There are several different combinations to try, using similar ideas. Then try 1,2,3,4, 1-3- in two bar sequences. The idea is keep it simple, but change timing. Play only on 2,3 and 4 - nod your heard where 1 is.



              Then re-set metronome to 60-70 bpm, and play quavers - all 8 in a bar. The tune doesn't matter, yet, but keep moving. Then miss out on maybe notes nos. 3 and 6, or 2 and 7. There are many, many different combinations, and writing down their rhythms in some way will stop you repeating! If it's easier, keep to only 3 or 4 different notes.



              None of this will sound too musical, that's not the point.



              Then imagine the metronome is not playing what most people imagine, beats 1,2,3 and 4, but the off beats - the & in between. Play against that. Go back to the 8s, and make beat 1 a root note, every two bars - all the time playing to one chord/set of pent. notes. After that, you can come up with more complex stuff, playing the changes too. That's because you'll know where you are in the bar, and then will only use the backing track as a guide.



              There's enough variety in rhythms there to play without repeating a pattern for months!






              share|improve this answer


























                6














                Go back to playing basic notes - the pentatonic scale will do. Se t the metronome for around 80-90 bpm. Play notes on each beat. So far, so simple! Then play on beats 1,2 3, not 4. Then try beats 1,2 not 3 but 4, all for several bars. There are several different combinations to try, using similar ideas. Then try 1,2,3,4, 1-3- in two bar sequences. The idea is keep it simple, but change timing. Play only on 2,3 and 4 - nod your heard where 1 is.



                Then re-set metronome to 60-70 bpm, and play quavers - all 8 in a bar. The tune doesn't matter, yet, but keep moving. Then miss out on maybe notes nos. 3 and 6, or 2 and 7. There are many, many different combinations, and writing down their rhythms in some way will stop you repeating! If it's easier, keep to only 3 or 4 different notes.



                None of this will sound too musical, that's not the point.



                Then imagine the metronome is not playing what most people imagine, beats 1,2,3 and 4, but the off beats - the & in between. Play against that. Go back to the 8s, and make beat 1 a root note, every two bars - all the time playing to one chord/set of pent. notes. After that, you can come up with more complex stuff, playing the changes too. That's because you'll know where you are in the bar, and then will only use the backing track as a guide.



                There's enough variety in rhythms there to play without repeating a pattern for months!






                share|improve this answer
























                  6












                  6








                  6






                  Go back to playing basic notes - the pentatonic scale will do. Se t the metronome for around 80-90 bpm. Play notes on each beat. So far, so simple! Then play on beats 1,2 3, not 4. Then try beats 1,2 not 3 but 4, all for several bars. There are several different combinations to try, using similar ideas. Then try 1,2,3,4, 1-3- in two bar sequences. The idea is keep it simple, but change timing. Play only on 2,3 and 4 - nod your heard where 1 is.



                  Then re-set metronome to 60-70 bpm, and play quavers - all 8 in a bar. The tune doesn't matter, yet, but keep moving. Then miss out on maybe notes nos. 3 and 6, or 2 and 7. There are many, many different combinations, and writing down their rhythms in some way will stop you repeating! If it's easier, keep to only 3 or 4 different notes.



                  None of this will sound too musical, that's not the point.



                  Then imagine the metronome is not playing what most people imagine, beats 1,2,3 and 4, but the off beats - the & in between. Play against that. Go back to the 8s, and make beat 1 a root note, every two bars - all the time playing to one chord/set of pent. notes. After that, you can come up with more complex stuff, playing the changes too. That's because you'll know where you are in the bar, and then will only use the backing track as a guide.



                  There's enough variety in rhythms there to play without repeating a pattern for months!






                  share|improve this answer












                  Go back to playing basic notes - the pentatonic scale will do. Se t the metronome for around 80-90 bpm. Play notes on each beat. So far, so simple! Then play on beats 1,2 3, not 4. Then try beats 1,2 not 3 but 4, all for several bars. There are several different combinations to try, using similar ideas. Then try 1,2,3,4, 1-3- in two bar sequences. The idea is keep it simple, but change timing. Play only on 2,3 and 4 - nod your heard where 1 is.



                  Then re-set metronome to 60-70 bpm, and play quavers - all 8 in a bar. The tune doesn't matter, yet, but keep moving. Then miss out on maybe notes nos. 3 and 6, or 2 and 7. There are many, many different combinations, and writing down their rhythms in some way will stop you repeating! If it's easier, keep to only 3 or 4 different notes.



                  None of this will sound too musical, that's not the point.



                  Then imagine the metronome is not playing what most people imagine, beats 1,2,3 and 4, but the off beats - the & in between. Play against that. Go back to the 8s, and make beat 1 a root note, every two bars - all the time playing to one chord/set of pent. notes. After that, you can come up with more complex stuff, playing the changes too. That's because you'll know where you are in the bar, and then will only use the backing track as a guide.



                  There's enough variety in rhythms there to play without repeating a pattern for months!







                  share|improve this answer












                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer










                  answered 2 days ago









                  TimTim

                  97k1099246




                  97k1099246























                      2














                      Good question. I've thought about ways to make my own solos rhythmically more varied for a long time, and so far I've come up with the following tricks:




                      • Sing the solo at the same time, singing and playing in unison. Rhythmically, but why not the pitches as well. At least for me, tying my playing with the "speaking part" of my brains makes me play different things, and makes me switch away from rhythm/accompaniment mode.

                      • A bonus feature for singing or at least exhaling along with your solo is, your phrases become more lyrical and human, like lines of a poem.

                      • Pick an existing line of text and sing or "sing" its rhythm with your instrument. Or maybe even try to mimic your natural way of speaking. Any line of text is ok. Try "Hello audience! This is my way of soloing. Would you like fries with that?"

                      • "Sing" in another language! Different languages have different emphasis in rhythmic emphasis, dynamics and intonation (pitch variations). "Smörgåsbord med fisk, sauerkraut och bra musik."

                      • Think that you're playing another instrument's line from a different genre, like some latin percussion rhythms.

                      • Practice and play polyrhythms that repeat like every 7/8ths. They will help you break the rhythm pattern for sure. :)

                      • Imagine that you're playing a drum solo. Listen to drum solos and pick up rhythmic ideas.

                      • Syncopate deliberately, mute or play a "tied note" over every beat.

                      • Pick an existing song melody you like and just change the pitches.

                      • Listen to and learn to play existing solos, mimic whatever you can remember from them.






                      share|improve this answer





















                      • I've used similar tactics with students, like having a conversation, first speaking the words, then repeating with the same timing in a certain key. Then it's my turn, and so on. Takes a bit of getting in to, but leads nicely into sharing solos, trading fours, etc.
                        – Tim
                        2 days ago
















                      2














                      Good question. I've thought about ways to make my own solos rhythmically more varied for a long time, and so far I've come up with the following tricks:




                      • Sing the solo at the same time, singing and playing in unison. Rhythmically, but why not the pitches as well. At least for me, tying my playing with the "speaking part" of my brains makes me play different things, and makes me switch away from rhythm/accompaniment mode.

                      • A bonus feature for singing or at least exhaling along with your solo is, your phrases become more lyrical and human, like lines of a poem.

                      • Pick an existing line of text and sing or "sing" its rhythm with your instrument. Or maybe even try to mimic your natural way of speaking. Any line of text is ok. Try "Hello audience! This is my way of soloing. Would you like fries with that?"

                      • "Sing" in another language! Different languages have different emphasis in rhythmic emphasis, dynamics and intonation (pitch variations). "Smörgåsbord med fisk, sauerkraut och bra musik."

                      • Think that you're playing another instrument's line from a different genre, like some latin percussion rhythms.

                      • Practice and play polyrhythms that repeat like every 7/8ths. They will help you break the rhythm pattern for sure. :)

                      • Imagine that you're playing a drum solo. Listen to drum solos and pick up rhythmic ideas.

                      • Syncopate deliberately, mute or play a "tied note" over every beat.

                      • Pick an existing song melody you like and just change the pitches.

                      • Listen to and learn to play existing solos, mimic whatever you can remember from them.






                      share|improve this answer





















                      • I've used similar tactics with students, like having a conversation, first speaking the words, then repeating with the same timing in a certain key. Then it's my turn, and so on. Takes a bit of getting in to, but leads nicely into sharing solos, trading fours, etc.
                        – Tim
                        2 days ago














                      2












                      2








                      2






                      Good question. I've thought about ways to make my own solos rhythmically more varied for a long time, and so far I've come up with the following tricks:




                      • Sing the solo at the same time, singing and playing in unison. Rhythmically, but why not the pitches as well. At least for me, tying my playing with the "speaking part" of my brains makes me play different things, and makes me switch away from rhythm/accompaniment mode.

                      • A bonus feature for singing or at least exhaling along with your solo is, your phrases become more lyrical and human, like lines of a poem.

                      • Pick an existing line of text and sing or "sing" its rhythm with your instrument. Or maybe even try to mimic your natural way of speaking. Any line of text is ok. Try "Hello audience! This is my way of soloing. Would you like fries with that?"

                      • "Sing" in another language! Different languages have different emphasis in rhythmic emphasis, dynamics and intonation (pitch variations). "Smörgåsbord med fisk, sauerkraut och bra musik."

                      • Think that you're playing another instrument's line from a different genre, like some latin percussion rhythms.

                      • Practice and play polyrhythms that repeat like every 7/8ths. They will help you break the rhythm pattern for sure. :)

                      • Imagine that you're playing a drum solo. Listen to drum solos and pick up rhythmic ideas.

                      • Syncopate deliberately, mute or play a "tied note" over every beat.

                      • Pick an existing song melody you like and just change the pitches.

                      • Listen to and learn to play existing solos, mimic whatever you can remember from them.






                      share|improve this answer












                      Good question. I've thought about ways to make my own solos rhythmically more varied for a long time, and so far I've come up with the following tricks:




                      • Sing the solo at the same time, singing and playing in unison. Rhythmically, but why not the pitches as well. At least for me, tying my playing with the "speaking part" of my brains makes me play different things, and makes me switch away from rhythm/accompaniment mode.

                      • A bonus feature for singing or at least exhaling along with your solo is, your phrases become more lyrical and human, like lines of a poem.

                      • Pick an existing line of text and sing or "sing" its rhythm with your instrument. Or maybe even try to mimic your natural way of speaking. Any line of text is ok. Try "Hello audience! This is my way of soloing. Would you like fries with that?"

                      • "Sing" in another language! Different languages have different emphasis in rhythmic emphasis, dynamics and intonation (pitch variations). "Smörgåsbord med fisk, sauerkraut och bra musik."

                      • Think that you're playing another instrument's line from a different genre, like some latin percussion rhythms.

                      • Practice and play polyrhythms that repeat like every 7/8ths. They will help you break the rhythm pattern for sure. :)

                      • Imagine that you're playing a drum solo. Listen to drum solos and pick up rhythmic ideas.

                      • Syncopate deliberately, mute or play a "tied note" over every beat.

                      • Pick an existing song melody you like and just change the pitches.

                      • Listen to and learn to play existing solos, mimic whatever you can remember from them.







                      share|improve this answer












                      share|improve this answer



                      share|improve this answer










                      answered 2 days ago









                      piiperipiiperi

                      6906




                      6906












                      • I've used similar tactics with students, like having a conversation, first speaking the words, then repeating with the same timing in a certain key. Then it's my turn, and so on. Takes a bit of getting in to, but leads nicely into sharing solos, trading fours, etc.
                        – Tim
                        2 days ago


















                      • I've used similar tactics with students, like having a conversation, first speaking the words, then repeating with the same timing in a certain key. Then it's my turn, and so on. Takes a bit of getting in to, but leads nicely into sharing solos, trading fours, etc.
                        – Tim
                        2 days ago
















                      I've used similar tactics with students, like having a conversation, first speaking the words, then repeating with the same timing in a certain key. Then it's my turn, and so on. Takes a bit of getting in to, but leads nicely into sharing solos, trading fours, etc.
                      – Tim
                      2 days ago




                      I've used similar tactics with students, like having a conversation, first speaking the words, then repeating with the same timing in a certain key. Then it's my turn, and so on. Takes a bit of getting in to, but leads nicely into sharing solos, trading fours, etc.
                      – Tim
                      2 days ago











                      1














                      I think this may be a common issue. When we Improv we are drawing on what we know, what is muscle memory. I would guess that your strumming patterns are some of the most ingrained patterns. I don't know how many years you've been practicing or playing but if you're like most people you started playing songs you like, drilled them over and over until they were memorized, and maybe embellished them a little.



                      That last part IS IMPROV. For most people improvisation = variation on a theme. Although that is not the only school of thought. You may have taken lessons are worked though a standard method book, some recital pieces etc.



                      One common misconception is that you cannot improvise if you are playing rehearsed lines. This is far from true and in fact (in my experience) one need to go through a period of time where you (1) play trough other people's solos, (2) transcribe solos you like, (3) write your own solos and licks, all before you can really improvise freely without a preconceived rehearsed idea of what you'll play. Through this process you can explore new melodic ideas as well as new rhythmic ideas, phrasing, etc. In time you will begin to develop your own unique style that isn't rehearsed. The irony, imo, is that the key to being unrehearsed is years of rehearsing.






                      share|improve this answer


























                        1














                        I think this may be a common issue. When we Improv we are drawing on what we know, what is muscle memory. I would guess that your strumming patterns are some of the most ingrained patterns. I don't know how many years you've been practicing or playing but if you're like most people you started playing songs you like, drilled them over and over until they were memorized, and maybe embellished them a little.



                        That last part IS IMPROV. For most people improvisation = variation on a theme. Although that is not the only school of thought. You may have taken lessons are worked though a standard method book, some recital pieces etc.



                        One common misconception is that you cannot improvise if you are playing rehearsed lines. This is far from true and in fact (in my experience) one need to go through a period of time where you (1) play trough other people's solos, (2) transcribe solos you like, (3) write your own solos and licks, all before you can really improvise freely without a preconceived rehearsed idea of what you'll play. Through this process you can explore new melodic ideas as well as new rhythmic ideas, phrasing, etc. In time you will begin to develop your own unique style that isn't rehearsed. The irony, imo, is that the key to being unrehearsed is years of rehearsing.






                        share|improve this answer
























                          1












                          1








                          1






                          I think this may be a common issue. When we Improv we are drawing on what we know, what is muscle memory. I would guess that your strumming patterns are some of the most ingrained patterns. I don't know how many years you've been practicing or playing but if you're like most people you started playing songs you like, drilled them over and over until they were memorized, and maybe embellished them a little.



                          That last part IS IMPROV. For most people improvisation = variation on a theme. Although that is not the only school of thought. You may have taken lessons are worked though a standard method book, some recital pieces etc.



                          One common misconception is that you cannot improvise if you are playing rehearsed lines. This is far from true and in fact (in my experience) one need to go through a period of time where you (1) play trough other people's solos, (2) transcribe solos you like, (3) write your own solos and licks, all before you can really improvise freely without a preconceived rehearsed idea of what you'll play. Through this process you can explore new melodic ideas as well as new rhythmic ideas, phrasing, etc. In time you will begin to develop your own unique style that isn't rehearsed. The irony, imo, is that the key to being unrehearsed is years of rehearsing.






                          share|improve this answer












                          I think this may be a common issue. When we Improv we are drawing on what we know, what is muscle memory. I would guess that your strumming patterns are some of the most ingrained patterns. I don't know how many years you've been practicing or playing but if you're like most people you started playing songs you like, drilled them over and over until they were memorized, and maybe embellished them a little.



                          That last part IS IMPROV. For most people improvisation = variation on a theme. Although that is not the only school of thought. You may have taken lessons are worked though a standard method book, some recital pieces etc.



                          One common misconception is that you cannot improvise if you are playing rehearsed lines. This is far from true and in fact (in my experience) one need to go through a period of time where you (1) play trough other people's solos, (2) transcribe solos you like, (3) write your own solos and licks, all before you can really improvise freely without a preconceived rehearsed idea of what you'll play. Through this process you can explore new melodic ideas as well as new rhythmic ideas, phrasing, etc. In time you will begin to develop your own unique style that isn't rehearsed. The irony, imo, is that the key to being unrehearsed is years of rehearsing.







                          share|improve this answer












                          share|improve this answer



                          share|improve this answer










                          answered 2 days ago









                          ggcgggcg

                          4,528322




                          4,528322






























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