On the product of two cycles (and its conjugates)
So this is from Charles C. Pinter's "A Book of Abstract Algebra"- specifically, it's from the second chapter on permutations.
The question is:
Let $alpha_1$ and $alpha_2$ be cycles of the same length. Let $beta_1$ and $beta_2$ be cycles of the same length. Let $alpha_1$ and $beta_1$ be disjoint, and let $alpha_2$ and $beta_2$ be disjoint. [Prove that] There is a permutation, $piin S_n$, such that $alpha_1beta_1=pialpha_2beta_2pi^{-1}$.
That's the question.
But this is actually the last of a five part question, sooooo here are the previous parts - the parts build on each other and it looks like part 4 (which can be found near the bottom) is of greatest relevance but I can't quite see how to use it here.
Part 1 was:
Let $alpha=(a_1,...,a_s)$ be a cycle and let $pi$ be a permutation in $S_n$. Then $pialphapi^{-1}$ is the cycle $(pi(alpha_1),...,pi(alpha_s))$.
(a solution can be found here Proof for conjugate cycles)
Part 2 was:
Conclude from part 1: Any two cycles of the same length are conjugates of each other.
The idea here is not too hard to formulate and some formalization is given in a hint which suggests defining a permutation, $pi$, as sending any element not in either cycle to itself, sending all of the elements of one of the cycles, denoted by A, to the other, denoted by B. Finally, define $pi$ over B-A as some bijection between B-A and A-B. Now, it is easy to show that $pi$ is a permutation and by part 1, that's enough.
Parts 3 and 4 are straightforward.
Part 3:
If $alpha$ and $beta$ are disjoint cycles, then $pialphapi^{-1}$ and $pibetapi^{-1}$ are disjoint cycles.
(this follows directly from part 1)
And Part 4:
Let $sigma$ be a product $alpha_1...alpha_t$ of t disjoint cycles of lengths $l_1,...,l_t$, respectively. Then $pisigmapi^{-1}$ is also a product of t disjoint cycles of lengths $l_1,...,l_t$.
(an easy generalization of part 3)
In the fifth part, I see how one can find a $pi$ such that $alpha_1=pialpha_2pi^{-1}$. I also see how one can find a $pi$ such that $beta_1=pibeta_2pi^{-1}$ (we can get this via an immediate application of part 2). What I can't see is how we can ensure that these two $pi$'s will be the same (which is what the question seems to be asking). I also can't see how to use Part 4 here as, on its own, it doesn't seem enough- it looks to me like we would need, in addition, to show that the act of taking a conjugate could be made 'onto' in a sense (and I don't get how to do that).
Any help appreciated.
abstract-algebra permutation-cycles
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add a comment |
So this is from Charles C. Pinter's "A Book of Abstract Algebra"- specifically, it's from the second chapter on permutations.
The question is:
Let $alpha_1$ and $alpha_2$ be cycles of the same length. Let $beta_1$ and $beta_2$ be cycles of the same length. Let $alpha_1$ and $beta_1$ be disjoint, and let $alpha_2$ and $beta_2$ be disjoint. [Prove that] There is a permutation, $piin S_n$, such that $alpha_1beta_1=pialpha_2beta_2pi^{-1}$.
That's the question.
But this is actually the last of a five part question, sooooo here are the previous parts - the parts build on each other and it looks like part 4 (which can be found near the bottom) is of greatest relevance but I can't quite see how to use it here.
Part 1 was:
Let $alpha=(a_1,...,a_s)$ be a cycle and let $pi$ be a permutation in $S_n$. Then $pialphapi^{-1}$ is the cycle $(pi(alpha_1),...,pi(alpha_s))$.
(a solution can be found here Proof for conjugate cycles)
Part 2 was:
Conclude from part 1: Any two cycles of the same length are conjugates of each other.
The idea here is not too hard to formulate and some formalization is given in a hint which suggests defining a permutation, $pi$, as sending any element not in either cycle to itself, sending all of the elements of one of the cycles, denoted by A, to the other, denoted by B. Finally, define $pi$ over B-A as some bijection between B-A and A-B. Now, it is easy to show that $pi$ is a permutation and by part 1, that's enough.
Parts 3 and 4 are straightforward.
Part 3:
If $alpha$ and $beta$ are disjoint cycles, then $pialphapi^{-1}$ and $pibetapi^{-1}$ are disjoint cycles.
(this follows directly from part 1)
And Part 4:
Let $sigma$ be a product $alpha_1...alpha_t$ of t disjoint cycles of lengths $l_1,...,l_t$, respectively. Then $pisigmapi^{-1}$ is also a product of t disjoint cycles of lengths $l_1,...,l_t$.
(an easy generalization of part 3)
In the fifth part, I see how one can find a $pi$ such that $alpha_1=pialpha_2pi^{-1}$. I also see how one can find a $pi$ such that $beta_1=pibeta_2pi^{-1}$ (we can get this via an immediate application of part 2). What I can't see is how we can ensure that these two $pi$'s will be the same (which is what the question seems to be asking). I also can't see how to use Part 4 here as, on its own, it doesn't seem enough- it looks to me like we would need, in addition, to show that the act of taking a conjugate could be made 'onto' in a sense (and I don't get how to do that).
Any help appreciated.
abstract-algebra permutation-cycles
New contributor
add a comment |
So this is from Charles C. Pinter's "A Book of Abstract Algebra"- specifically, it's from the second chapter on permutations.
The question is:
Let $alpha_1$ and $alpha_2$ be cycles of the same length. Let $beta_1$ and $beta_2$ be cycles of the same length. Let $alpha_1$ and $beta_1$ be disjoint, and let $alpha_2$ and $beta_2$ be disjoint. [Prove that] There is a permutation, $piin S_n$, such that $alpha_1beta_1=pialpha_2beta_2pi^{-1}$.
That's the question.
But this is actually the last of a five part question, sooooo here are the previous parts - the parts build on each other and it looks like part 4 (which can be found near the bottom) is of greatest relevance but I can't quite see how to use it here.
Part 1 was:
Let $alpha=(a_1,...,a_s)$ be a cycle and let $pi$ be a permutation in $S_n$. Then $pialphapi^{-1}$ is the cycle $(pi(alpha_1),...,pi(alpha_s))$.
(a solution can be found here Proof for conjugate cycles)
Part 2 was:
Conclude from part 1: Any two cycles of the same length are conjugates of each other.
The idea here is not too hard to formulate and some formalization is given in a hint which suggests defining a permutation, $pi$, as sending any element not in either cycle to itself, sending all of the elements of one of the cycles, denoted by A, to the other, denoted by B. Finally, define $pi$ over B-A as some bijection between B-A and A-B. Now, it is easy to show that $pi$ is a permutation and by part 1, that's enough.
Parts 3 and 4 are straightforward.
Part 3:
If $alpha$ and $beta$ are disjoint cycles, then $pialphapi^{-1}$ and $pibetapi^{-1}$ are disjoint cycles.
(this follows directly from part 1)
And Part 4:
Let $sigma$ be a product $alpha_1...alpha_t$ of t disjoint cycles of lengths $l_1,...,l_t$, respectively. Then $pisigmapi^{-1}$ is also a product of t disjoint cycles of lengths $l_1,...,l_t$.
(an easy generalization of part 3)
In the fifth part, I see how one can find a $pi$ such that $alpha_1=pialpha_2pi^{-1}$. I also see how one can find a $pi$ such that $beta_1=pibeta_2pi^{-1}$ (we can get this via an immediate application of part 2). What I can't see is how we can ensure that these two $pi$'s will be the same (which is what the question seems to be asking). I also can't see how to use Part 4 here as, on its own, it doesn't seem enough- it looks to me like we would need, in addition, to show that the act of taking a conjugate could be made 'onto' in a sense (and I don't get how to do that).
Any help appreciated.
abstract-algebra permutation-cycles
New contributor
So this is from Charles C. Pinter's "A Book of Abstract Algebra"- specifically, it's from the second chapter on permutations.
The question is:
Let $alpha_1$ and $alpha_2$ be cycles of the same length. Let $beta_1$ and $beta_2$ be cycles of the same length. Let $alpha_1$ and $beta_1$ be disjoint, and let $alpha_2$ and $beta_2$ be disjoint. [Prove that] There is a permutation, $piin S_n$, such that $alpha_1beta_1=pialpha_2beta_2pi^{-1}$.
That's the question.
But this is actually the last of a five part question, sooooo here are the previous parts - the parts build on each other and it looks like part 4 (which can be found near the bottom) is of greatest relevance but I can't quite see how to use it here.
Part 1 was:
Let $alpha=(a_1,...,a_s)$ be a cycle and let $pi$ be a permutation in $S_n$. Then $pialphapi^{-1}$ is the cycle $(pi(alpha_1),...,pi(alpha_s))$.
(a solution can be found here Proof for conjugate cycles)
Part 2 was:
Conclude from part 1: Any two cycles of the same length are conjugates of each other.
The idea here is not too hard to formulate and some formalization is given in a hint which suggests defining a permutation, $pi$, as sending any element not in either cycle to itself, sending all of the elements of one of the cycles, denoted by A, to the other, denoted by B. Finally, define $pi$ over B-A as some bijection between B-A and A-B. Now, it is easy to show that $pi$ is a permutation and by part 1, that's enough.
Parts 3 and 4 are straightforward.
Part 3:
If $alpha$ and $beta$ are disjoint cycles, then $pialphapi^{-1}$ and $pibetapi^{-1}$ are disjoint cycles.
(this follows directly from part 1)
And Part 4:
Let $sigma$ be a product $alpha_1...alpha_t$ of t disjoint cycles of lengths $l_1,...,l_t$, respectively. Then $pisigmapi^{-1}$ is also a product of t disjoint cycles of lengths $l_1,...,l_t$.
(an easy generalization of part 3)
In the fifth part, I see how one can find a $pi$ such that $alpha_1=pialpha_2pi^{-1}$. I also see how one can find a $pi$ such that $beta_1=pibeta_2pi^{-1}$ (we can get this via an immediate application of part 2). What I can't see is how we can ensure that these two $pi$'s will be the same (which is what the question seems to be asking). I also can't see how to use Part 4 here as, on its own, it doesn't seem enough- it looks to me like we would need, in addition, to show that the act of taking a conjugate could be made 'onto' in a sense (and I don't get how to do that).
Any help appreciated.
abstract-algebra permutation-cycles
abstract-algebra permutation-cycles
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edited Jan 4 at 20:39
Cardioid_Ass_22
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asked Jan 4 at 19:39
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Let
$alpha_1=(alpha^1_1,alpha^1_2,dots,alpha^1_n),alpha_2=(alpha^2_1,alpha^2_2,dots,alpha^2_n),$
$beta_1=(beta^1_1,beta^1_2,dots,beta^1_m),beta_2=(beta^2_1,beta^2_2,dots,beta^2_m)$.
Let $pi$ be any permutation which satisfies $pi(alpha^2_i)=alpha^1_i$ and $pi(beta^2_j)=beta^1_j$ for all $1le i le n$ and $1le j le m$. Then $pialpha_2beta_2pi^{-1}=pialpha_2pi^{-1}pibeta_2pi^{-1}=alpha_1beta_1$, using part (1) of your problem.
Edit: I see now that the crux of your question is why such a permutation $pi$ exists. For any given pair of lists of $k$ distinct numbers $x_1,dots,x_k$ and $y_1,dots,y_k$, there exists a permutation which satisfies $pi(x_i)=y_i$. In fact, there are $(n-k)!$ choices for $pi$. To choose $pi$, let $z_1,dots,z_{n-k}$ be a list of the numbers not present in $x_1,dots,x_k$, then for each $j=1,2,dots,n-k$ in order, set $pi(z_j)$ to be any number unequal to $y_1,dots,y_k,z_1,z_2,dots,z_{j-1}$.
I'm sorry but I'm still confused. The process that you have described looks to me to work for single cycles. How can we extend the process for constructing a permutation you describe so that it ensures such a permutation exists for a product of cycles? Or if it already applies to products of cycles (at least for just a product of two cycles), well, how can we show that it works even in that case?
– Cardioid_Ass_22
Jan 4 at 20:38
The process I described in my edit also works for double cycles. Just let $x_1,dots,x_k$ be the list of $n+m$ numbers $alpha^2_1,dots,alpha^2_n,beta^2_1,dots,beta^2_m$, and let $y_1,dots,y_k$ be the same list but with $alpha^2$ and $beta^2$ replaced with $alpha^1$ and $beta^1$.
– Mike Earnest
Jan 4 at 21:24
Goodness, that's a lot easier than anything I had in my mind! Yes, that seems an absolutely fair argument. Thank you!
– Cardioid_Ass_22
Jan 4 at 21:49
add a comment |
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Let
$alpha_1=(alpha^1_1,alpha^1_2,dots,alpha^1_n),alpha_2=(alpha^2_1,alpha^2_2,dots,alpha^2_n),$
$beta_1=(beta^1_1,beta^1_2,dots,beta^1_m),beta_2=(beta^2_1,beta^2_2,dots,beta^2_m)$.
Let $pi$ be any permutation which satisfies $pi(alpha^2_i)=alpha^1_i$ and $pi(beta^2_j)=beta^1_j$ for all $1le i le n$ and $1le j le m$. Then $pialpha_2beta_2pi^{-1}=pialpha_2pi^{-1}pibeta_2pi^{-1}=alpha_1beta_1$, using part (1) of your problem.
Edit: I see now that the crux of your question is why such a permutation $pi$ exists. For any given pair of lists of $k$ distinct numbers $x_1,dots,x_k$ and $y_1,dots,y_k$, there exists a permutation which satisfies $pi(x_i)=y_i$. In fact, there are $(n-k)!$ choices for $pi$. To choose $pi$, let $z_1,dots,z_{n-k}$ be a list of the numbers not present in $x_1,dots,x_k$, then for each $j=1,2,dots,n-k$ in order, set $pi(z_j)$ to be any number unequal to $y_1,dots,y_k,z_1,z_2,dots,z_{j-1}$.
I'm sorry but I'm still confused. The process that you have described looks to me to work for single cycles. How can we extend the process for constructing a permutation you describe so that it ensures such a permutation exists for a product of cycles? Or if it already applies to products of cycles (at least for just a product of two cycles), well, how can we show that it works even in that case?
– Cardioid_Ass_22
Jan 4 at 20:38
The process I described in my edit also works for double cycles. Just let $x_1,dots,x_k$ be the list of $n+m$ numbers $alpha^2_1,dots,alpha^2_n,beta^2_1,dots,beta^2_m$, and let $y_1,dots,y_k$ be the same list but with $alpha^2$ and $beta^2$ replaced with $alpha^1$ and $beta^1$.
– Mike Earnest
Jan 4 at 21:24
Goodness, that's a lot easier than anything I had in my mind! Yes, that seems an absolutely fair argument. Thank you!
– Cardioid_Ass_22
Jan 4 at 21:49
add a comment |
Let
$alpha_1=(alpha^1_1,alpha^1_2,dots,alpha^1_n),alpha_2=(alpha^2_1,alpha^2_2,dots,alpha^2_n),$
$beta_1=(beta^1_1,beta^1_2,dots,beta^1_m),beta_2=(beta^2_1,beta^2_2,dots,beta^2_m)$.
Let $pi$ be any permutation which satisfies $pi(alpha^2_i)=alpha^1_i$ and $pi(beta^2_j)=beta^1_j$ for all $1le i le n$ and $1le j le m$. Then $pialpha_2beta_2pi^{-1}=pialpha_2pi^{-1}pibeta_2pi^{-1}=alpha_1beta_1$, using part (1) of your problem.
Edit: I see now that the crux of your question is why such a permutation $pi$ exists. For any given pair of lists of $k$ distinct numbers $x_1,dots,x_k$ and $y_1,dots,y_k$, there exists a permutation which satisfies $pi(x_i)=y_i$. In fact, there are $(n-k)!$ choices for $pi$. To choose $pi$, let $z_1,dots,z_{n-k}$ be a list of the numbers not present in $x_1,dots,x_k$, then for each $j=1,2,dots,n-k$ in order, set $pi(z_j)$ to be any number unequal to $y_1,dots,y_k,z_1,z_2,dots,z_{j-1}$.
I'm sorry but I'm still confused. The process that you have described looks to me to work for single cycles. How can we extend the process for constructing a permutation you describe so that it ensures such a permutation exists for a product of cycles? Or if it already applies to products of cycles (at least for just a product of two cycles), well, how can we show that it works even in that case?
– Cardioid_Ass_22
Jan 4 at 20:38
The process I described in my edit also works for double cycles. Just let $x_1,dots,x_k$ be the list of $n+m$ numbers $alpha^2_1,dots,alpha^2_n,beta^2_1,dots,beta^2_m$, and let $y_1,dots,y_k$ be the same list but with $alpha^2$ and $beta^2$ replaced with $alpha^1$ and $beta^1$.
– Mike Earnest
Jan 4 at 21:24
Goodness, that's a lot easier than anything I had in my mind! Yes, that seems an absolutely fair argument. Thank you!
– Cardioid_Ass_22
Jan 4 at 21:49
add a comment |
Let
$alpha_1=(alpha^1_1,alpha^1_2,dots,alpha^1_n),alpha_2=(alpha^2_1,alpha^2_2,dots,alpha^2_n),$
$beta_1=(beta^1_1,beta^1_2,dots,beta^1_m),beta_2=(beta^2_1,beta^2_2,dots,beta^2_m)$.
Let $pi$ be any permutation which satisfies $pi(alpha^2_i)=alpha^1_i$ and $pi(beta^2_j)=beta^1_j$ for all $1le i le n$ and $1le j le m$. Then $pialpha_2beta_2pi^{-1}=pialpha_2pi^{-1}pibeta_2pi^{-1}=alpha_1beta_1$, using part (1) of your problem.
Edit: I see now that the crux of your question is why such a permutation $pi$ exists. For any given pair of lists of $k$ distinct numbers $x_1,dots,x_k$ and $y_1,dots,y_k$, there exists a permutation which satisfies $pi(x_i)=y_i$. In fact, there are $(n-k)!$ choices for $pi$. To choose $pi$, let $z_1,dots,z_{n-k}$ be a list of the numbers not present in $x_1,dots,x_k$, then for each $j=1,2,dots,n-k$ in order, set $pi(z_j)$ to be any number unequal to $y_1,dots,y_k,z_1,z_2,dots,z_{j-1}$.
Let
$alpha_1=(alpha^1_1,alpha^1_2,dots,alpha^1_n),alpha_2=(alpha^2_1,alpha^2_2,dots,alpha^2_n),$
$beta_1=(beta^1_1,beta^1_2,dots,beta^1_m),beta_2=(beta^2_1,beta^2_2,dots,beta^2_m)$.
Let $pi$ be any permutation which satisfies $pi(alpha^2_i)=alpha^1_i$ and $pi(beta^2_j)=beta^1_j$ for all $1le i le n$ and $1le j le m$. Then $pialpha_2beta_2pi^{-1}=pialpha_2pi^{-1}pibeta_2pi^{-1}=alpha_1beta_1$, using part (1) of your problem.
Edit: I see now that the crux of your question is why such a permutation $pi$ exists. For any given pair of lists of $k$ distinct numbers $x_1,dots,x_k$ and $y_1,dots,y_k$, there exists a permutation which satisfies $pi(x_i)=y_i$. In fact, there are $(n-k)!$ choices for $pi$. To choose $pi$, let $z_1,dots,z_{n-k}$ be a list of the numbers not present in $x_1,dots,x_k$, then for each $j=1,2,dots,n-k$ in order, set $pi(z_j)$ to be any number unequal to $y_1,dots,y_k,z_1,z_2,dots,z_{j-1}$.
edited Jan 4 at 20:17
answered Jan 4 at 20:08
Mike EarnestMike Earnest
20.7k11950
20.7k11950
I'm sorry but I'm still confused. The process that you have described looks to me to work for single cycles. How can we extend the process for constructing a permutation you describe so that it ensures such a permutation exists for a product of cycles? Or if it already applies to products of cycles (at least for just a product of two cycles), well, how can we show that it works even in that case?
– Cardioid_Ass_22
Jan 4 at 20:38
The process I described in my edit also works for double cycles. Just let $x_1,dots,x_k$ be the list of $n+m$ numbers $alpha^2_1,dots,alpha^2_n,beta^2_1,dots,beta^2_m$, and let $y_1,dots,y_k$ be the same list but with $alpha^2$ and $beta^2$ replaced with $alpha^1$ and $beta^1$.
– Mike Earnest
Jan 4 at 21:24
Goodness, that's a lot easier than anything I had in my mind! Yes, that seems an absolutely fair argument. Thank you!
– Cardioid_Ass_22
Jan 4 at 21:49
add a comment |
I'm sorry but I'm still confused. The process that you have described looks to me to work for single cycles. How can we extend the process for constructing a permutation you describe so that it ensures such a permutation exists for a product of cycles? Or if it already applies to products of cycles (at least for just a product of two cycles), well, how can we show that it works even in that case?
– Cardioid_Ass_22
Jan 4 at 20:38
The process I described in my edit also works for double cycles. Just let $x_1,dots,x_k$ be the list of $n+m$ numbers $alpha^2_1,dots,alpha^2_n,beta^2_1,dots,beta^2_m$, and let $y_1,dots,y_k$ be the same list but with $alpha^2$ and $beta^2$ replaced with $alpha^1$ and $beta^1$.
– Mike Earnest
Jan 4 at 21:24
Goodness, that's a lot easier than anything I had in my mind! Yes, that seems an absolutely fair argument. Thank you!
– Cardioid_Ass_22
Jan 4 at 21:49
I'm sorry but I'm still confused. The process that you have described looks to me to work for single cycles. How can we extend the process for constructing a permutation you describe so that it ensures such a permutation exists for a product of cycles? Or if it already applies to products of cycles (at least for just a product of two cycles), well, how can we show that it works even in that case?
– Cardioid_Ass_22
Jan 4 at 20:38
I'm sorry but I'm still confused. The process that you have described looks to me to work for single cycles. How can we extend the process for constructing a permutation you describe so that it ensures such a permutation exists for a product of cycles? Or if it already applies to products of cycles (at least for just a product of two cycles), well, how can we show that it works even in that case?
– Cardioid_Ass_22
Jan 4 at 20:38
The process I described in my edit also works for double cycles. Just let $x_1,dots,x_k$ be the list of $n+m$ numbers $alpha^2_1,dots,alpha^2_n,beta^2_1,dots,beta^2_m$, and let $y_1,dots,y_k$ be the same list but with $alpha^2$ and $beta^2$ replaced with $alpha^1$ and $beta^1$.
– Mike Earnest
Jan 4 at 21:24
The process I described in my edit also works for double cycles. Just let $x_1,dots,x_k$ be the list of $n+m$ numbers $alpha^2_1,dots,alpha^2_n,beta^2_1,dots,beta^2_m$, and let $y_1,dots,y_k$ be the same list but with $alpha^2$ and $beta^2$ replaced with $alpha^1$ and $beta^1$.
– Mike Earnest
Jan 4 at 21:24
Goodness, that's a lot easier than anything I had in my mind! Yes, that seems an absolutely fair argument. Thank you!
– Cardioid_Ass_22
Jan 4 at 21:49
Goodness, that's a lot easier than anything I had in my mind! Yes, that seems an absolutely fair argument. Thank you!
– Cardioid_Ass_22
Jan 4 at 21:49
add a comment |
Cardioid_Ass_22 is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Cardioid_Ass_22 is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Cardioid_Ass_22 is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Cardioid_Ass_22 is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
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