Is $2x-y = 0$ a plane or line in 3d?












2














I am going through Strang's linear algebra video 1 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1131&v=ZK3O402wf1c), and he seemed to suggest that the equation:



$2x - y = 0$



is a plane in 3 dimensions. However, isn't $z$ zero in this equation? Therefore, this would describe a line in 3d not a plane. I think his logic was that the omitted term is $0z$, so $z$ can be anything.



That makes sense, but I also don't understand how the same equation can be a line in 2d but a plane in 3d.










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  • 2




    Start from thinking of $x=0$. It is a point on the line, a line ($y$-axis) in the plane and a plane ($yz$-plane) in the 3d space.
    – A.Γ.
    2 days ago










  • "isn't $z$ zero in this equation" ? No. The point $(1,2,0)$ verifies the equation, but also $(1,2,5)$ and $(1,2,500)$
    – leonbloy
    2 days ago
















2














I am going through Strang's linear algebra video 1 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1131&v=ZK3O402wf1c), and he seemed to suggest that the equation:



$2x - y = 0$



is a plane in 3 dimensions. However, isn't $z$ zero in this equation? Therefore, this would describe a line in 3d not a plane. I think his logic was that the omitted term is $0z$, so $z$ can be anything.



That makes sense, but I also don't understand how the same equation can be a line in 2d but a plane in 3d.










share|cite|improve this question


















  • 2




    Start from thinking of $x=0$. It is a point on the line, a line ($y$-axis) in the plane and a plane ($yz$-plane) in the 3d space.
    – A.Γ.
    2 days ago










  • "isn't $z$ zero in this equation" ? No. The point $(1,2,0)$ verifies the equation, but also $(1,2,5)$ and $(1,2,500)$
    – leonbloy
    2 days ago














2












2








2


1





I am going through Strang's linear algebra video 1 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1131&v=ZK3O402wf1c), and he seemed to suggest that the equation:



$2x - y = 0$



is a plane in 3 dimensions. However, isn't $z$ zero in this equation? Therefore, this would describe a line in 3d not a plane. I think his logic was that the omitted term is $0z$, so $z$ can be anything.



That makes sense, but I also don't understand how the same equation can be a line in 2d but a plane in 3d.










share|cite|improve this question













I am going through Strang's linear algebra video 1 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1131&v=ZK3O402wf1c), and he seemed to suggest that the equation:



$2x - y = 0$



is a plane in 3 dimensions. However, isn't $z$ zero in this equation? Therefore, this would describe a line in 3d not a plane. I think his logic was that the omitted term is $0z$, so $z$ can be anything.



That makes sense, but I also don't understand how the same equation can be a line in 2d but a plane in 3d.







linear-algebra 3d






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asked 2 days ago









hlinee

755




755








  • 2




    Start from thinking of $x=0$. It is a point on the line, a line ($y$-axis) in the plane and a plane ($yz$-plane) in the 3d space.
    – A.Γ.
    2 days ago










  • "isn't $z$ zero in this equation" ? No. The point $(1,2,0)$ verifies the equation, but also $(1,2,5)$ and $(1,2,500)$
    – leonbloy
    2 days ago














  • 2




    Start from thinking of $x=0$. It is a point on the line, a line ($y$-axis) in the plane and a plane ($yz$-plane) in the 3d space.
    – A.Γ.
    2 days ago










  • "isn't $z$ zero in this equation" ? No. The point $(1,2,0)$ verifies the equation, but also $(1,2,5)$ and $(1,2,500)$
    – leonbloy
    2 days ago








2




2




Start from thinking of $x=0$. It is a point on the line, a line ($y$-axis) in the plane and a plane ($yz$-plane) in the 3d space.
– A.Γ.
2 days ago




Start from thinking of $x=0$. It is a point on the line, a line ($y$-axis) in the plane and a plane ($yz$-plane) in the 3d space.
– A.Γ.
2 days ago












"isn't $z$ zero in this equation" ? No. The point $(1,2,0)$ verifies the equation, but also $(1,2,5)$ and $(1,2,500)$
– leonbloy
2 days ago




"isn't $z$ zero in this equation" ? No. The point $(1,2,0)$ verifies the equation, but also $(1,2,5)$ and $(1,2,500)$
– leonbloy
2 days ago










5 Answers
5






active

oldest

votes


















5














There are a few ways to see this.



$1.$ $2x-y=0$ defines a line in the $(x,y)-$plane which is then shifted in $z$ because if $(x_0,y_0)$ satisfies $2x-y$, then we are free to choose $z_0$ so that $(x_0,y_0,z_0)$ satisfies the equation. So, we get a line in the $(x,y)-$plane shifted in the $z$ direction forming a plane.



$2.$ This is the kernel of the linear map $T:mathbb{R}^3to mathbb{R}$ given by $T(x,y,z)=2x-y$. Now, $dimoperatorname{range}(T)=1$, so that by the rank nullity theorem, $dimker(T)=2$. This tells us that
$$ dimker(T)=dim{(x,y,z)in mathbb{R}^3: 2x-y=0}=2.$$
So, the dimension of the solution set to that equation is $2-$dimensional, i.e. a plane.



$3.$ Alternatively, we can view the set of solutions of the equation $2x-y=0$ as the set of elements $(x,y,z)$ in $mathbb{R}^3$ such that
$$ (2,-1,0)cdot(x,y,z)=0.$$
That is, the solutions to the equation are the set of vectors in $mathbb{R}^3$ orthogonal to $(2,-1,0)$. Such vectors form a plane.






share|cite|improve this answer





























    4














    The confusion appears to arise from Strang conflating equations and sets. I.e. "$2x-y=0$" isn't really a plane or a line; it's just an equation. Instead it's the set ${(x,y,z) in mathbb{R}^3 | 2x-y=0}$ that is a plane. (If you're unfamiliar with this set notation, read it as, "The set of triples $(x,y,z)$ such that $2x-y=0$.")



    Note that this set is different to both ${(x,y,z) in mathbb{R}^3 | 2x-y=0, z=0}$ (the line in 3-D space given by the same equation from before and also the extra condition that $z=0$) and the set ${(x,y) in mathbb{R}^2 | 2x-y=0}$ (the line given by the same equation in 2-D space).



    Once you're more experienced, you'll be able to work out the sets other mathematicians are talking about from context without them having to spell out the whole thing (e.g. Strang talking about $2x-y=0$ in 3 dimensions is clearly referring to ${(x,y,z) in mathbb{R}^3 | 2x-y=0}$ rather than any other set). But until then, the extra formalism of the set notation can help you understand the difference between each of the things you had confused.






    share|cite|improve this answer





















    • It is a good point to resolve the confusion.
      – A.Γ.
      2 days ago



















    4














    $z$ is not always zero because $z$ can take any value. The equation that you have defines the plane by two directions. One of them is given by the line in the $xy$ plane, the other is along the $z$ axis.






    share|cite|improve this answer



















    • 1




      Not just zero, of course
      – Dan Uznanski
      2 days ago










    • Thank. I should say "not always zero".
      – Andrei
      2 days ago



















    3














    $z$ can be anything at all in this case, yes. The reason this is a line in 2d and a plane in 3d is because in 3d there's "room" for it to grow into a plane. Similarly, this equation considered in 4d space would give a 3-dimensional hyperplane, and in $n$d space it gives an $n-1$ dimensional hyperplane, because there is "room to grow" into in all these situations.






    share|cite|improve this answer





















    • Wow I like the intuition behind your answer!
      – hlinee
      yesterday



















    2














    First, let's look at why $2x-y=0$ represents a line in 2D. All the points $(a, 2a)$ satisfies the equation, giving you:



    2D_Image



    If we allow for a 3rd coordinate, we get all the points $(a, 2a, c)$ where $c$ can be any thing and the equation will still hold true, which gives you the following:



    3D_Image



    In fact, if you were to restrict $z$ to be $0$, then you do in fact get a line in 3 space.






    share|cite|improve this answer





















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      5 Answers
      5






      active

      oldest

      votes








      5 Answers
      5






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

      votes









      5














      There are a few ways to see this.



      $1.$ $2x-y=0$ defines a line in the $(x,y)-$plane which is then shifted in $z$ because if $(x_0,y_0)$ satisfies $2x-y$, then we are free to choose $z_0$ so that $(x_0,y_0,z_0)$ satisfies the equation. So, we get a line in the $(x,y)-$plane shifted in the $z$ direction forming a plane.



      $2.$ This is the kernel of the linear map $T:mathbb{R}^3to mathbb{R}$ given by $T(x,y,z)=2x-y$. Now, $dimoperatorname{range}(T)=1$, so that by the rank nullity theorem, $dimker(T)=2$. This tells us that
      $$ dimker(T)=dim{(x,y,z)in mathbb{R}^3: 2x-y=0}=2.$$
      So, the dimension of the solution set to that equation is $2-$dimensional, i.e. a plane.



      $3.$ Alternatively, we can view the set of solutions of the equation $2x-y=0$ as the set of elements $(x,y,z)$ in $mathbb{R}^3$ such that
      $$ (2,-1,0)cdot(x,y,z)=0.$$
      That is, the solutions to the equation are the set of vectors in $mathbb{R}^3$ orthogonal to $(2,-1,0)$. Such vectors form a plane.






      share|cite|improve this answer


























        5














        There are a few ways to see this.



        $1.$ $2x-y=0$ defines a line in the $(x,y)-$plane which is then shifted in $z$ because if $(x_0,y_0)$ satisfies $2x-y$, then we are free to choose $z_0$ so that $(x_0,y_0,z_0)$ satisfies the equation. So, we get a line in the $(x,y)-$plane shifted in the $z$ direction forming a plane.



        $2.$ This is the kernel of the linear map $T:mathbb{R}^3to mathbb{R}$ given by $T(x,y,z)=2x-y$. Now, $dimoperatorname{range}(T)=1$, so that by the rank nullity theorem, $dimker(T)=2$. This tells us that
        $$ dimker(T)=dim{(x,y,z)in mathbb{R}^3: 2x-y=0}=2.$$
        So, the dimension of the solution set to that equation is $2-$dimensional, i.e. a plane.



        $3.$ Alternatively, we can view the set of solutions of the equation $2x-y=0$ as the set of elements $(x,y,z)$ in $mathbb{R}^3$ such that
        $$ (2,-1,0)cdot(x,y,z)=0.$$
        That is, the solutions to the equation are the set of vectors in $mathbb{R}^3$ orthogonal to $(2,-1,0)$. Such vectors form a plane.






        share|cite|improve this answer
























          5












          5








          5






          There are a few ways to see this.



          $1.$ $2x-y=0$ defines a line in the $(x,y)-$plane which is then shifted in $z$ because if $(x_0,y_0)$ satisfies $2x-y$, then we are free to choose $z_0$ so that $(x_0,y_0,z_0)$ satisfies the equation. So, we get a line in the $(x,y)-$plane shifted in the $z$ direction forming a plane.



          $2.$ This is the kernel of the linear map $T:mathbb{R}^3to mathbb{R}$ given by $T(x,y,z)=2x-y$. Now, $dimoperatorname{range}(T)=1$, so that by the rank nullity theorem, $dimker(T)=2$. This tells us that
          $$ dimker(T)=dim{(x,y,z)in mathbb{R}^3: 2x-y=0}=2.$$
          So, the dimension of the solution set to that equation is $2-$dimensional, i.e. a plane.



          $3.$ Alternatively, we can view the set of solutions of the equation $2x-y=0$ as the set of elements $(x,y,z)$ in $mathbb{R}^3$ such that
          $$ (2,-1,0)cdot(x,y,z)=0.$$
          That is, the solutions to the equation are the set of vectors in $mathbb{R}^3$ orthogonal to $(2,-1,0)$. Such vectors form a plane.






          share|cite|improve this answer












          There are a few ways to see this.



          $1.$ $2x-y=0$ defines a line in the $(x,y)-$plane which is then shifted in $z$ because if $(x_0,y_0)$ satisfies $2x-y$, then we are free to choose $z_0$ so that $(x_0,y_0,z_0)$ satisfies the equation. So, we get a line in the $(x,y)-$plane shifted in the $z$ direction forming a plane.



          $2.$ This is the kernel of the linear map $T:mathbb{R}^3to mathbb{R}$ given by $T(x,y,z)=2x-y$. Now, $dimoperatorname{range}(T)=1$, so that by the rank nullity theorem, $dimker(T)=2$. This tells us that
          $$ dimker(T)=dim{(x,y,z)in mathbb{R}^3: 2x-y=0}=2.$$
          So, the dimension of the solution set to that equation is $2-$dimensional, i.e. a plane.



          $3.$ Alternatively, we can view the set of solutions of the equation $2x-y=0$ as the set of elements $(x,y,z)$ in $mathbb{R}^3$ such that
          $$ (2,-1,0)cdot(x,y,z)=0.$$
          That is, the solutions to the equation are the set of vectors in $mathbb{R}^3$ orthogonal to $(2,-1,0)$. Such vectors form a plane.







          share|cite|improve this answer












          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer










          answered 2 days ago









          Antonios-Alexandros Robotis

          9,40741640




          9,40741640























              4














              The confusion appears to arise from Strang conflating equations and sets. I.e. "$2x-y=0$" isn't really a plane or a line; it's just an equation. Instead it's the set ${(x,y,z) in mathbb{R}^3 | 2x-y=0}$ that is a plane. (If you're unfamiliar with this set notation, read it as, "The set of triples $(x,y,z)$ such that $2x-y=0$.")



              Note that this set is different to both ${(x,y,z) in mathbb{R}^3 | 2x-y=0, z=0}$ (the line in 3-D space given by the same equation from before and also the extra condition that $z=0$) and the set ${(x,y) in mathbb{R}^2 | 2x-y=0}$ (the line given by the same equation in 2-D space).



              Once you're more experienced, you'll be able to work out the sets other mathematicians are talking about from context without them having to spell out the whole thing (e.g. Strang talking about $2x-y=0$ in 3 dimensions is clearly referring to ${(x,y,z) in mathbb{R}^3 | 2x-y=0}$ rather than any other set). But until then, the extra formalism of the set notation can help you understand the difference between each of the things you had confused.






              share|cite|improve this answer





















              • It is a good point to resolve the confusion.
                – A.Γ.
                2 days ago
















              4














              The confusion appears to arise from Strang conflating equations and sets. I.e. "$2x-y=0$" isn't really a plane or a line; it's just an equation. Instead it's the set ${(x,y,z) in mathbb{R}^3 | 2x-y=0}$ that is a plane. (If you're unfamiliar with this set notation, read it as, "The set of triples $(x,y,z)$ such that $2x-y=0$.")



              Note that this set is different to both ${(x,y,z) in mathbb{R}^3 | 2x-y=0, z=0}$ (the line in 3-D space given by the same equation from before and also the extra condition that $z=0$) and the set ${(x,y) in mathbb{R}^2 | 2x-y=0}$ (the line given by the same equation in 2-D space).



              Once you're more experienced, you'll be able to work out the sets other mathematicians are talking about from context without them having to spell out the whole thing (e.g. Strang talking about $2x-y=0$ in 3 dimensions is clearly referring to ${(x,y,z) in mathbb{R}^3 | 2x-y=0}$ rather than any other set). But until then, the extra formalism of the set notation can help you understand the difference between each of the things you had confused.






              share|cite|improve this answer





















              • It is a good point to resolve the confusion.
                – A.Γ.
                2 days ago














              4












              4








              4






              The confusion appears to arise from Strang conflating equations and sets. I.e. "$2x-y=0$" isn't really a plane or a line; it's just an equation. Instead it's the set ${(x,y,z) in mathbb{R}^3 | 2x-y=0}$ that is a plane. (If you're unfamiliar with this set notation, read it as, "The set of triples $(x,y,z)$ such that $2x-y=0$.")



              Note that this set is different to both ${(x,y,z) in mathbb{R}^3 | 2x-y=0, z=0}$ (the line in 3-D space given by the same equation from before and also the extra condition that $z=0$) and the set ${(x,y) in mathbb{R}^2 | 2x-y=0}$ (the line given by the same equation in 2-D space).



              Once you're more experienced, you'll be able to work out the sets other mathematicians are talking about from context without them having to spell out the whole thing (e.g. Strang talking about $2x-y=0$ in 3 dimensions is clearly referring to ${(x,y,z) in mathbb{R}^3 | 2x-y=0}$ rather than any other set). But until then, the extra formalism of the set notation can help you understand the difference between each of the things you had confused.






              share|cite|improve this answer












              The confusion appears to arise from Strang conflating equations and sets. I.e. "$2x-y=0$" isn't really a plane or a line; it's just an equation. Instead it's the set ${(x,y,z) in mathbb{R}^3 | 2x-y=0}$ that is a plane. (If you're unfamiliar with this set notation, read it as, "The set of triples $(x,y,z)$ such that $2x-y=0$.")



              Note that this set is different to both ${(x,y,z) in mathbb{R}^3 | 2x-y=0, z=0}$ (the line in 3-D space given by the same equation from before and also the extra condition that $z=0$) and the set ${(x,y) in mathbb{R}^2 | 2x-y=0}$ (the line given by the same equation in 2-D space).



              Once you're more experienced, you'll be able to work out the sets other mathematicians are talking about from context without them having to spell out the whole thing (e.g. Strang talking about $2x-y=0$ in 3 dimensions is clearly referring to ${(x,y,z) in mathbb{R}^3 | 2x-y=0}$ rather than any other set). But until then, the extra formalism of the set notation can help you understand the difference between each of the things you had confused.







              share|cite|improve this answer












              share|cite|improve this answer



              share|cite|improve this answer










              answered 2 days ago









              Chessanator

              1,8451411




              1,8451411












              • It is a good point to resolve the confusion.
                – A.Γ.
                2 days ago


















              • It is a good point to resolve the confusion.
                – A.Γ.
                2 days ago
















              It is a good point to resolve the confusion.
              – A.Γ.
              2 days ago




              It is a good point to resolve the confusion.
              – A.Γ.
              2 days ago











              4














              $z$ is not always zero because $z$ can take any value. The equation that you have defines the plane by two directions. One of them is given by the line in the $xy$ plane, the other is along the $z$ axis.






              share|cite|improve this answer



















              • 1




                Not just zero, of course
                – Dan Uznanski
                2 days ago










              • Thank. I should say "not always zero".
                – Andrei
                2 days ago
















              4














              $z$ is not always zero because $z$ can take any value. The equation that you have defines the plane by two directions. One of them is given by the line in the $xy$ plane, the other is along the $z$ axis.






              share|cite|improve this answer



















              • 1




                Not just zero, of course
                – Dan Uznanski
                2 days ago










              • Thank. I should say "not always zero".
                – Andrei
                2 days ago














              4












              4








              4






              $z$ is not always zero because $z$ can take any value. The equation that you have defines the plane by two directions. One of them is given by the line in the $xy$ plane, the other is along the $z$ axis.






              share|cite|improve this answer














              $z$ is not always zero because $z$ can take any value. The equation that you have defines the plane by two directions. One of them is given by the line in the $xy$ plane, the other is along the $z$ axis.







              share|cite|improve this answer














              share|cite|improve this answer



              share|cite|improve this answer








              edited 2 days ago

























              answered 2 days ago









              Andrei

              11.3k21026




              11.3k21026








              • 1




                Not just zero, of course
                – Dan Uznanski
                2 days ago










              • Thank. I should say "not always zero".
                – Andrei
                2 days ago














              • 1




                Not just zero, of course
                – Dan Uznanski
                2 days ago










              • Thank. I should say "not always zero".
                – Andrei
                2 days ago








              1




              1




              Not just zero, of course
              – Dan Uznanski
              2 days ago




              Not just zero, of course
              – Dan Uznanski
              2 days ago












              Thank. I should say "not always zero".
              – Andrei
              2 days ago




              Thank. I should say "not always zero".
              – Andrei
              2 days ago











              3














              $z$ can be anything at all in this case, yes. The reason this is a line in 2d and a plane in 3d is because in 3d there's "room" for it to grow into a plane. Similarly, this equation considered in 4d space would give a 3-dimensional hyperplane, and in $n$d space it gives an $n-1$ dimensional hyperplane, because there is "room to grow" into in all these situations.






              share|cite|improve this answer





















              • Wow I like the intuition behind your answer!
                – hlinee
                yesterday
















              3














              $z$ can be anything at all in this case, yes. The reason this is a line in 2d and a plane in 3d is because in 3d there's "room" for it to grow into a plane. Similarly, this equation considered in 4d space would give a 3-dimensional hyperplane, and in $n$d space it gives an $n-1$ dimensional hyperplane, because there is "room to grow" into in all these situations.






              share|cite|improve this answer





















              • Wow I like the intuition behind your answer!
                – hlinee
                yesterday














              3












              3








              3






              $z$ can be anything at all in this case, yes. The reason this is a line in 2d and a plane in 3d is because in 3d there's "room" for it to grow into a plane. Similarly, this equation considered in 4d space would give a 3-dimensional hyperplane, and in $n$d space it gives an $n-1$ dimensional hyperplane, because there is "room to grow" into in all these situations.






              share|cite|improve this answer












              $z$ can be anything at all in this case, yes. The reason this is a line in 2d and a plane in 3d is because in 3d there's "room" for it to grow into a plane. Similarly, this equation considered in 4d space would give a 3-dimensional hyperplane, and in $n$d space it gives an $n-1$ dimensional hyperplane, because there is "room to grow" into in all these situations.







              share|cite|improve this answer












              share|cite|improve this answer



              share|cite|improve this answer










              answered 2 days ago









              Dan Uznanski

              6,51521427




              6,51521427












              • Wow I like the intuition behind your answer!
                – hlinee
                yesterday


















              • Wow I like the intuition behind your answer!
                – hlinee
                yesterday
















              Wow I like the intuition behind your answer!
              – hlinee
              yesterday




              Wow I like the intuition behind your answer!
              – hlinee
              yesterday











              2














              First, let's look at why $2x-y=0$ represents a line in 2D. All the points $(a, 2a)$ satisfies the equation, giving you:



              2D_Image



              If we allow for a 3rd coordinate, we get all the points $(a, 2a, c)$ where $c$ can be any thing and the equation will still hold true, which gives you the following:



              3D_Image



              In fact, if you were to restrict $z$ to be $0$, then you do in fact get a line in 3 space.






              share|cite|improve this answer


























                2














                First, let's look at why $2x-y=0$ represents a line in 2D. All the points $(a, 2a)$ satisfies the equation, giving you:



                2D_Image



                If we allow for a 3rd coordinate, we get all the points $(a, 2a, c)$ where $c$ can be any thing and the equation will still hold true, which gives you the following:



                3D_Image



                In fact, if you were to restrict $z$ to be $0$, then you do in fact get a line in 3 space.






                share|cite|improve this answer
























                  2












                  2








                  2






                  First, let's look at why $2x-y=0$ represents a line in 2D. All the points $(a, 2a)$ satisfies the equation, giving you:



                  2D_Image



                  If we allow for a 3rd coordinate, we get all the points $(a, 2a, c)$ where $c$ can be any thing and the equation will still hold true, which gives you the following:



                  3D_Image



                  In fact, if you were to restrict $z$ to be $0$, then you do in fact get a line in 3 space.






                  share|cite|improve this answer












                  First, let's look at why $2x-y=0$ represents a line in 2D. All the points $(a, 2a)$ satisfies the equation, giving you:



                  2D_Image



                  If we allow for a 3rd coordinate, we get all the points $(a, 2a, c)$ where $c$ can be any thing and the equation will still hold true, which gives you the following:



                  3D_Image



                  In fact, if you were to restrict $z$ to be $0$, then you do in fact get a line in 3 space.







                  share|cite|improve this answer












                  share|cite|improve this answer



                  share|cite|improve this answer










                  answered 2 days ago









                  Dubs

                  1162




                  1162






























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