Removing persist from a creature — will it still trigger?
Suppose there is a creature with persist on the battlefield, for example Safehold Elite. The creature loses persist somehow, for example because a player casts Turn to Frog on it. The creature then dies, for example due to combat damage. I know that the creature card will have persist again once it's in the graveyard. Does the persist trigger go off, or does the creature simply die?
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Suppose there is a creature with persist on the battlefield, for example Safehold Elite. The creature loses persist somehow, for example because a player casts Turn to Frog on it. The creature then dies, for example due to combat damage. I know that the creature card will have persist again once it's in the graveyard. Does the persist trigger go off, or does the creature simply die?
magic-the-gathering
edited 3 hours ago
Kevin
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asked yesterday
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Suppose there is a creature with persist on the battlefield, for example Safehold Elite. The creature loses persist somehow, for example because a player casts Turn to Frog on it. The creature then dies, for example due to combat damage. I know that the creature card will have persist again once it's in the graveyard. Does the persist trigger go off, or does the creature simply die?
magic-the-gathering
edited 3 hours ago
Kevin
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asked yesterday
vpixievpixie
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vpixie is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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Suppose there is a creature with persist on the battlefield, for example Safehold Elite. The creature loses persist somehow, for example because a player casts Turn to Frog on it. The creature then dies, for example due to combat damage. I know that the creature card will have persist again once it's in the graveyard. Does the persist trigger go off, or does the creature simply die?
magic-the-gathering
magic-the-gathering
edited 3 hours ago
Kevin
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asked yesterday
vpixievpixie
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edited 3 hours ago
Kevin
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vpixievpixie
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edited 3 hours ago
Kevin
1,863722
edited 3 hours ago
Kevin
1,863722
edited 3 hours ago
Kevin
1,863722
1,863722
asked yesterday
vpixievpixie
261
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asked yesterday
vpixievpixie
261
asked yesterday
vpixievpixie
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261
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702.78a Persist is a triggered ability. “Persist” means “When this permanent is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, if it had no -1/-1 counters on it, return it to the battlefield under its owner’s control with a -1/-1 counter on it.”
Key here is "triggered ability", which happen as the event occurs.
603.2. Whenever a game event or game state matches a triggered ability’s trigger event, that ability automatically triggers.
At the time the event happens, the permanent doesn't have Persist, so nothing triggers. It's only after the event concludes that Persist returns to the card.
answered yesterday
Xavier ShayXavier Shay
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No, persist only triggers when it was on the creature at the moment it died.
Normally, triggered abilities only work when they exist by the time the relevant event has happened. However, in the example case of a creature with active persist, by the time that creature has hit the graveyard, persist is no longer active because it's a creature ability that only works on the battlefield. That would mean that abilities such as persist would never work.
Therefore, a zone-change trigger ability such as persist has to look back in time to work properly. Conversely, if persist is not on the creature when it would look back in time, it won't trigger. It doesn't matter if the new object in the graveyard has persist.
603.10a Some zone-change triggers look back in time. These are leaves-the-battlefield abilities, abilities that trigger when a card leaves a graveyard, and abilities that trigger when an object that all players can see is put into a hand or library.
answered yesterday
HackworthHackworth
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2 Answers
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2 Answers
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702.78a Persist is a triggered ability. “Persist” means “When this permanent is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, if it had no -1/-1 counters on it, return it to the battlefield under its owner’s control with a -1/-1 counter on it.”
Key here is "triggered ability", which happen as the event occurs.
603.2. Whenever a game event or game state matches a triggered ability’s trigger event, that ability automatically triggers.
At the time the event happens, the permanent doesn't have Persist, so nothing triggers. It's only after the event concludes that Persist returns to the card.
answered yesterday
Xavier ShayXavier Shay
1593
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702.78a Persist is a triggered ability. “Persist” means “When this permanent is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, if it had no -1/-1 counters on it, return it to the battlefield under its owner’s control with a -1/-1 counter on it.”
Key here is "triggered ability", which happen as the event occurs.
603.2. Whenever a game event or game state matches a triggered ability’s trigger event, that ability automatically triggers.
At the time the event happens, the permanent doesn't have Persist, so nothing triggers. It's only after the event concludes that Persist returns to the card.
answered yesterday
Xavier ShayXavier Shay
1593
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Xavier Shay is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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702.78a Persist is a triggered ability. “Persist” means “When this permanent is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, if it had no -1/-1 counters on it, return it to the battlefield under its owner’s control with a -1/-1 counter on it.”
Key here is "triggered ability", which happen as the event occurs.
603.2. Whenever a game event or game state matches a triggered ability’s trigger event, that ability automatically triggers.
At the time the event happens, the permanent doesn't have Persist, so nothing triggers. It's only after the event concludes that Persist returns to the card.
answered yesterday
Xavier ShayXavier Shay
1593
New contributor
Xavier Shay is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
702.78a Persist is a triggered ability. “Persist” means “When this permanent is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, if it had no -1/-1 counters on it, return it to the battlefield under its owner’s control with a -1/-1 counter on it.”
Key here is "triggered ability", which happen as the event occurs.
603.2. Whenever a game event or game state matches a triggered ability’s trigger event, that ability automatically triggers.
At the time the event happens, the permanent doesn't have Persist, so nothing triggers. It's only after the event concludes that Persist returns to the card.
answered yesterday
Xavier ShayXavier Shay
1593
New contributor
Xavier Shay is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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answered yesterday
Xavier ShayXavier Shay
1593
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answered yesterday
Xavier ShayXavier Shay
1593
answered yesterday
Xavier ShayXavier Shay
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1593
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No, persist only triggers when it was on the creature at the moment it died.
Normally, triggered abilities only work when they exist by the time the relevant event has happened. However, in the example case of a creature with active persist, by the time that creature has hit the graveyard, persist is no longer active because it's a creature ability that only works on the battlefield. That would mean that abilities such as persist would never work.
Therefore, a zone-change trigger ability such as persist has to look back in time to work properly. Conversely, if persist is not on the creature when it would look back in time, it won't trigger. It doesn't matter if the new object in the graveyard has persist.
603.10a Some zone-change triggers look back in time. These are leaves-the-battlefield abilities, abilities that trigger when a card leaves a graveyard, and abilities that trigger when an object that all players can see is put into a hand or library.
answered yesterday
HackworthHackworth
25.1k265114
add a comment |
No, persist only triggers when it was on the creature at the moment it died.
Normally, triggered abilities only work when they exist by the time the relevant event has happened. However, in the example case of a creature with active persist, by the time that creature has hit the graveyard, persist is no longer active because it's a creature ability that only works on the battlefield. That would mean that abilities such as persist would never work.
Therefore, a zone-change trigger ability such as persist has to look back in time to work properly. Conversely, if persist is not on the creature when it would look back in time, it won't trigger. It doesn't matter if the new object in the graveyard has persist.
603.10a Some zone-change triggers look back in time. These are leaves-the-battlefield abilities, abilities that trigger when a card leaves a graveyard, and abilities that trigger when an object that all players can see is put into a hand or library.
answered yesterday
HackworthHackworth
25.1k265114
add a comment |
No, persist only triggers when it was on the creature at the moment it died.
Normally, triggered abilities only work when they exist by the time the relevant event has happened. However, in the example case of a creature with active persist, by the time that creature has hit the graveyard, persist is no longer active because it's a creature ability that only works on the battlefield. That would mean that abilities such as persist would never work.
Therefore, a zone-change trigger ability such as persist has to look back in time to work properly. Conversely, if persist is not on the creature when it would look back in time, it won't trigger. It doesn't matter if the new object in the graveyard has persist.
603.10a Some zone-change triggers look back in time. These are leaves-the-battlefield abilities, abilities that trigger when a card leaves a graveyard, and abilities that trigger when an object that all players can see is put into a hand or library.
answered yesterday
HackworthHackworth
25.1k265114
No, persist only triggers when it was on the creature at the moment it died.
Normally, triggered abilities only work when they exist by the time the relevant event has happened. However, in the example case of a creature with active persist, by the time that creature has hit the graveyard, persist is no longer active because it's a creature ability that only works on the battlefield. That would mean that abilities such as persist would never work.
Therefore, a zone-change trigger ability such as persist has to look back in time to work properly. Conversely, if persist is not on the creature when it would look back in time, it won't trigger. It doesn't matter if the new object in the graveyard has persist.
603.10a Some zone-change triggers look back in time. These are leaves-the-battlefield abilities, abilities that trigger when a card leaves a graveyard, and abilities that trigger when an object that all players can see is put into a hand or library.
answered yesterday
HackworthHackworth
25.1k265114
answered yesterday
HackworthHackworth
25.1k265114
answered yesterday
HackworthHackworth
25.1k265114
answered yesterday
HackworthHackworth
25.1k265114
25.1k265114
add a comment |
add a comment |
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