Can employees prohibit their employer from calling unnecessary ambulance services? [on hold]
Is it legal for me to prohibit my employer from calling an ambulance for me if I have a seizure? Because that would most likely be unnecessary and I wouldn't want to pay for it.
human-resources
asked Jan 14 at 17:06
Jessica NationsJessica Nations
9514
New contributor
Jessica Nations is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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put on hold as off-topic by Victor S, dfundako, Jenny D, gnat, solarflare Jan 14 at 23:46
This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:
- "Questions seeking advice on company-specific regulations, agreements, or policies should be directed to your manager or HR department. Questions that address only a specific company or position are of limited use to future visitors. Questions seeking legal advice should be directed to legal professionals. For more information, click here." – Victor S, dfundako, Jenny D, gnat, solarflare
If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.
|
show 8 more comments
Is it legal for me to prohibit my employer from calling an ambulance for me if I have a seizure? Because that would most likely be unnecessary and I wouldn't want to pay for it.
human-resources
asked Jan 14 at 17:06
Jessica NationsJessica Nations
9514
New contributor
Jessica Nations is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
put on hold as off-topic by Victor S, dfundako, Jenny D, gnat, solarflare Jan 14 at 23:46
This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:
- "Questions seeking advice on company-specific regulations, agreements, or policies should be directed to your manager or HR department. Questions that address only a specific company or position are of limited use to future visitors. Questions seeking legal advice should be directed to legal professionals. For more information, click here." – Victor S, dfundako, Jenny D, gnat, solarflare
If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.
12
Please let us know where (country, province, region, state) this is.
– Richard U
Jan 14 at 17:16
11
@SandraK no, it doesn't mean that the employer would have to pay for it. I just went through this myself.
– Richard U
Jan 14 at 17:16
8
@LordFarquaad "Not messy" is not frequently used to describe the US healthcare system
– Azor Ahai
Jan 14 at 20:07
2
@LordFarquaad I work in a hospital, so I doubt they'd send one, instead of just asking me to come upstairs
– Azor Ahai
Jan 14 at 21:00
3
@DJClayworth The caller is not generally responsible for the ambulance bill (hoax calls excepted), but the subject of the call often is. A complicating issue is that there may be liability for the employer if the OP experiences something that presents sort of like a "normal" seizure but isn't as harmless. If the OP wants to sign a specific contract waiving any possible legal action should an ambulance fail to be called, ever, maybe. But I wouldn't count on every employee getting that memo. Applying "reasonableness" or "common sense" to U.S. medical billing is nearly always a mistake.
– Upper_Case
Jan 14 at 23:24
|
show 8 more comments
Is it legal for me to prohibit my employer from calling an ambulance for me if I have a seizure? Because that would most likely be unnecessary and I wouldn't want to pay for it.
human-resources
asked Jan 14 at 17:06
Jessica NationsJessica Nations
9514
New contributor
Jessica Nations is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Is it legal for me to prohibit my employer from calling an ambulance for me if I have a seizure? Because that would most likely be unnecessary and I wouldn't want to pay for it.
human-resources
human-resources
asked Jan 14 at 17:06
Jessica NationsJessica Nations
9514
New contributor
Jessica Nations is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked Jan 14 at 17:06
Jessica NationsJessica Nations
9514
New contributor
Jessica Nations is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked Jan 14 at 17:06
Jessica NationsJessica Nations
9514
New contributor
Jessica Nations is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked Jan 14 at 17:06
Jessica NationsJessica Nations
9514
asked Jan 14 at 17:06
Jessica NationsJessica Nations
9514
9514
New contributor
Jessica Nations is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
Jessica Nations is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Jessica Nations is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
put on hold as off-topic by Victor S, dfundako, Jenny D, gnat, solarflare Jan 14 at 23:46
This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:
- "Questions seeking advice on company-specific regulations, agreements, or policies should be directed to your manager or HR department. Questions that address only a specific company or position are of limited use to future visitors. Questions seeking legal advice should be directed to legal professionals. For more information, click here." – Victor S, dfundako, Jenny D, gnat, solarflare
If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.
put on hold as off-topic by Victor S, dfundako, Jenny D, gnat, solarflare Jan 14 at 23:46
This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:
- "Questions seeking advice on company-specific regulations, agreements, or policies should be directed to your manager or HR department. Questions that address only a specific company or position are of limited use to future visitors. Questions seeking legal advice should be directed to legal professionals. For more information, click here." – Victor S, dfundako, Jenny D, gnat, solarflare
If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.
12
Please let us know where (country, province, region, state) this is.
– Richard U
Jan 14 at 17:16
11
@SandraK no, it doesn't mean that the employer would have to pay for it. I just went through this myself.
– Richard U
Jan 14 at 17:16
8
@LordFarquaad "Not messy" is not frequently used to describe the US healthcare system
– Azor Ahai
Jan 14 at 20:07
2
@LordFarquaad I work in a hospital, so I doubt they'd send one, instead of just asking me to come upstairs
– Azor Ahai
Jan 14 at 21:00
3
@DJClayworth The caller is not generally responsible for the ambulance bill (hoax calls excepted), but the subject of the call often is. A complicating issue is that there may be liability for the employer if the OP experiences something that presents sort of like a "normal" seizure but isn't as harmless. If the OP wants to sign a specific contract waiving any possible legal action should an ambulance fail to be called, ever, maybe. But I wouldn't count on every employee getting that memo. Applying "reasonableness" or "common sense" to U.S. medical billing is nearly always a mistake.
– Upper_Case
Jan 14 at 23:24
|
show 8 more comments
12
Please let us know where (country, province, region, state) this is.
– Richard U
Jan 14 at 17:16
11
@SandraK no, it doesn't mean that the employer would have to pay for it. I just went through this myself.
– Richard U
Jan 14 at 17:16
8
@LordFarquaad "Not messy" is not frequently used to describe the US healthcare system
– Azor Ahai
Jan 14 at 20:07
2
@LordFarquaad I work in a hospital, so I doubt they'd send one, instead of just asking me to come upstairs
– Azor Ahai
Jan 14 at 21:00
3
@DJClayworth The caller is not generally responsible for the ambulance bill (hoax calls excepted), but the subject of the call often is. A complicating issue is that there may be liability for the employer if the OP experiences something that presents sort of like a "normal" seizure but isn't as harmless. If the OP wants to sign a specific contract waiving any possible legal action should an ambulance fail to be called, ever, maybe. But I wouldn't count on every employee getting that memo. Applying "reasonableness" or "common sense" to U.S. medical billing is nearly always a mistake.
– Upper_Case
Jan 14 at 23:24
12
12
Please let us know where (country, province, region, state) this is.
– Richard U
Jan 14 at 17:16
Please let us know where (country, province, region, state) this is.
– Richard U
Jan 14 at 17:16
11
11
@SandraK no, it doesn't mean that the employer would have to pay for it. I just went through this myself.
– Richard U
Jan 14 at 17:16
@SandraK no, it doesn't mean that the employer would have to pay for it. I just went through this myself.
– Richard U
Jan 14 at 17:16
8
8
@LordFarquaad "Not messy" is not frequently used to describe the US healthcare system
– Azor Ahai
Jan 14 at 20:07
@LordFarquaad "Not messy" is not frequently used to describe the US healthcare system
– Azor Ahai
Jan 14 at 20:07
2
2
@LordFarquaad I work in a hospital, so I doubt they'd send one, instead of just asking me to come upstairs
– Azor Ahai
Jan 14 at 21:00
@LordFarquaad I work in a hospital, so I doubt they'd send one, instead of just asking me to come upstairs
– Azor Ahai
Jan 14 at 21:00
3
3
@DJClayworth The caller is not generally responsible for the ambulance bill (hoax calls excepted), but the subject of the call often is. A complicating issue is that there may be liability for the employer if the OP experiences something that presents sort of like a "normal" seizure but isn't as harmless. If the OP wants to sign a specific contract waiving any possible legal action should an ambulance fail to be called, ever, maybe. But I wouldn't count on every employee getting that memo. Applying "reasonableness" or "common sense" to U.S. medical billing is nearly always a mistake.
– Upper_Case
Jan 14 at 23:24
@DJClayworth The caller is not generally responsible for the ambulance bill (hoax calls excepted), but the subject of the call often is. A complicating issue is that there may be liability for the employer if the OP experiences something that presents sort of like a "normal" seizure but isn't as harmless. If the OP wants to sign a specific contract waiving any possible legal action should an ambulance fail to be called, ever, maybe. But I wouldn't count on every employee getting that memo. Applying "reasonableness" or "common sense" to U.S. medical billing is nearly always a mistake.
– Upper_Case
Jan 14 at 23:24
|
show 8 more comments
5 Answers
5
active
oldest
votes
I think communication and mutual understanding is key here.
I don't know any place where you could legally forbid your employer from calling an ambulance. On the contrary, the employer is bound to care for your physical and mental wellbeing, a fact that is often ignored.
You should have a serious talk with your manager and the people working near you most of the time. If there are dedicated first aid workers in your company, invite them as well. Explain to them what a typical seizure looks like, how they should react to prevent injuries to you and themselves, and how long to wait until they call an ambulance. Be aware that telling them to never call an ambulance will most likely not work. It would help them immensly if you told them how often you usually get seizures and for how long.
For an untrained person, seing someone having a seizure is very shocking. The first instinct (and what every first aid training tells you) is to call the emergency number. If you're aware that a seizure is imminent, try saying "no ambulance" or something like that right before it starts.
edited 2 days ago
JeffC
24817
answered Jan 14 at 17:58
ElmyElmy
8,92652038
add a comment |
You cannot block an employer from calling an ambulance for a medical emergency. I have diabetes, and even though a low blood sugar episode can be countered with orange juice, they will still call the rescue squad.
This is unfortunately, not your call, as it is an issue of liability. All that you can do is refuse any and all medical aid when they come.
answered Jan 14 at 18:13
Richard URichard U
90.1k64231357
add a comment |
Knowing whether it would be legal or not would be largely dependent on locale. That said, even if it were legal for you to provide some sort of waiver or agreement to them that said not to call an ambulance, as an employer I'd be deeply uncomfortable with such an arrangement, and I expect many others would be too.
You say that it would "most likely be unnecessary" - which implies that there is a chance it would be necessary. I'm not sure I'd like to be in a position to explain to anyone - lawyers, employer's liability insurers, and least of all to an employee's grieving relatives why we didn't call an ambulance when they were seizing.
edited Jan 14 at 19:14
yoozer8
4,15342955
answered Jan 14 at 17:21
motosubatsumotosubatsu
44.9k24118179
The sun will most likely rise tomorrow. There's a chance it won't. Are you going to spend a lot of time preparing for the chance that it won't?
– only_pro
Jan 14 at 17:26
3
I seriously doubt any employer would allow themselves to be put in a situation where they had to rely on the goodwill of family, employee or their trial lawyers to not fight such an agreement as irrelevant if they followed the employee's wishes and it would up with the employee being seriously harmed. There would be massive legal costs as the courts hashed out "but they specifically told us not to call an ambulance" vs "not for something that serious. Employer should have known better, was negligent and is liable."
– PoloHoleSet
Jan 14 at 17:44
3
@only_pro Not a great analogy, considering the liability on the company is huge if there are in fact medical consequences from not getting the OP medical attention.
– element11
Jan 14 at 17:46
@element11 I'm just pointing out the flaws in the logic used in this answer.
– only_pro
Jan 14 at 18:09
23
@only_pro No, your analogy is silly for two reasons. First, the chance of the sun not rising tomorrow is microscopically small, whereas the chance of serious medical complications arising from a seizure are not small, even for someone who experiences them regularly, and usually has no serious problem. Second, there is no reasonable or prudent action someone can take to prepare for the sun not coming up, whereas calling an ambulance for someone having a seizure would certainly seem to be prudent, even if only in retrospect, after something untoward happened. It's a tricky problem.
– Charles E. Grant
Jan 14 at 18:29
add a comment |
Unless your employer and colleagues are trained medical professionals that can diagnose a seizure where medical attention is not necessary, there is nothing you can do to prevent them from calling an ambulance should you have any issue. That being said, they will not be charged for calling an ambulance and neither will you.
answered Jan 14 at 17:52
sf02sf02
4,4632521
4
Those of us trained in first aid have an idea when it's time to call an ambulance. And you are right, in most places, calling them results in no charges. You are only charged if they actually take you to the hospital. But this is not a universal truth for every state. In some states the casualty is required to sue the caller to pay for the ambulance.
– Trevor D
Jan 14 at 18:10
@Pac0 that's unfortunate as that leads to first responders not wanting to help for fear of being tracked down and sued for ambulance payments.
– Trevor D
2 days ago
add a comment |
I am not a lawyer neither I am HR, bu if I were HR, I would probably frown upon this "prohibition clause" and instructs coworkers not to comply (and call an ambulance if needed), unless there is insurance that there is no risk for the company.
Why ? Imagine the following scenario :
You have a seizure.
Unfortunately, this is not one of your usual, or some nasty other thing happen in the same time
coworkers can't tell the difference, ambulance is not called.
You lose your life or left with heavy / irreparable damage
You or your relatives sue the company for non-assistance.
-> Company must pay heavy compensation (and may get some bad reputation)
(and, as an off-topic side effect, it's also bad for you too)
I can imagine such a "play with employee's life" clause possible if, for instance there is a already recognized medical staff that could take the responsibility to not call the ambulance in the emergency situation.
In any case, if you still want to take this risk for yourself, you should go see a lawyer and / or your doctor.
They are the people who can have knowledge of similar legal situations and find a way to make such a clause possible and riskless for the company, if it is possible.
answered Jan 14 at 21:36
Pac0Pac0
41719
add a comment |
5 Answers
5
active
oldest
votes
5 Answers
5
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
I think communication and mutual understanding is key here.
I don't know any place where you could legally forbid your employer from calling an ambulance. On the contrary, the employer is bound to care for your physical and mental wellbeing, a fact that is often ignored.
You should have a serious talk with your manager and the people working near you most of the time. If there are dedicated first aid workers in your company, invite them as well. Explain to them what a typical seizure looks like, how they should react to prevent injuries to you and themselves, and how long to wait until they call an ambulance. Be aware that telling them to never call an ambulance will most likely not work. It would help them immensly if you told them how often you usually get seizures and for how long.
For an untrained person, seing someone having a seizure is very shocking. The first instinct (and what every first aid training tells you) is to call the emergency number. If you're aware that a seizure is imminent, try saying "no ambulance" or something like that right before it starts.
edited 2 days ago
JeffC
24817
answered Jan 14 at 17:58
ElmyElmy
8,92652038
add a comment |
I think communication and mutual understanding is key here.
I don't know any place where you could legally forbid your employer from calling an ambulance. On the contrary, the employer is bound to care for your physical and mental wellbeing, a fact that is often ignored.
You should have a serious talk with your manager and the people working near you most of the time. If there are dedicated first aid workers in your company, invite them as well. Explain to them what a typical seizure looks like, how they should react to prevent injuries to you and themselves, and how long to wait until they call an ambulance. Be aware that telling them to never call an ambulance will most likely not work. It would help them immensly if you told them how often you usually get seizures and for how long.
For an untrained person, seing someone having a seizure is very shocking. The first instinct (and what every first aid training tells you) is to call the emergency number. If you're aware that a seizure is imminent, try saying "no ambulance" or something like that right before it starts.
edited 2 days ago
JeffC
24817
answered Jan 14 at 17:58
ElmyElmy
8,92652038
add a comment |
I think communication and mutual understanding is key here.
I don't know any place where you could legally forbid your employer from calling an ambulance. On the contrary, the employer is bound to care for your physical and mental wellbeing, a fact that is often ignored.
You should have a serious talk with your manager and the people working near you most of the time. If there are dedicated first aid workers in your company, invite them as well. Explain to them what a typical seizure looks like, how they should react to prevent injuries to you and themselves, and how long to wait until they call an ambulance. Be aware that telling them to never call an ambulance will most likely not work. It would help them immensly if you told them how often you usually get seizures and for how long.
For an untrained person, seing someone having a seizure is very shocking. The first instinct (and what every first aid training tells you) is to call the emergency number. If you're aware that a seizure is imminent, try saying "no ambulance" or something like that right before it starts.
edited 2 days ago
JeffC
24817
answered Jan 14 at 17:58
ElmyElmy
8,92652038
I think communication and mutual understanding is key here.
I don't know any place where you could legally forbid your employer from calling an ambulance. On the contrary, the employer is bound to care for your physical and mental wellbeing, a fact that is often ignored.
You should have a serious talk with your manager and the people working near you most of the time. If there are dedicated first aid workers in your company, invite them as well. Explain to them what a typical seizure looks like, how they should react to prevent injuries to you and themselves, and how long to wait until they call an ambulance. Be aware that telling them to never call an ambulance will most likely not work. It would help them immensly if you told them how often you usually get seizures and for how long.
For an untrained person, seing someone having a seizure is very shocking. The first instinct (and what every first aid training tells you) is to call the emergency number. If you're aware that a seizure is imminent, try saying "no ambulance" or something like that right before it starts.
edited 2 days ago
JeffC
24817
answered Jan 14 at 17:58
ElmyElmy
8,92652038
edited 2 days ago
JeffC
24817
edited 2 days ago
JeffC
24817
edited 2 days ago
JeffC
24817
24817
answered Jan 14 at 17:58
ElmyElmy
8,92652038
answered Jan 14 at 17:58
ElmyElmy
8,92652038
answered Jan 14 at 17:58
ElmyElmy
8,92652038
8,92652038
add a comment |
add a comment |
You cannot block an employer from calling an ambulance for a medical emergency. I have diabetes, and even though a low blood sugar episode can be countered with orange juice, they will still call the rescue squad.
This is unfortunately, not your call, as it is an issue of liability. All that you can do is refuse any and all medical aid when they come.
answered Jan 14 at 18:13
Richard URichard U
90.1k64231357
add a comment |
You cannot block an employer from calling an ambulance for a medical emergency. I have diabetes, and even though a low blood sugar episode can be countered with orange juice, they will still call the rescue squad.
This is unfortunately, not your call, as it is an issue of liability. All that you can do is refuse any and all medical aid when they come.
answered Jan 14 at 18:13
Richard URichard U
90.1k64231357
add a comment |
You cannot block an employer from calling an ambulance for a medical emergency. I have diabetes, and even though a low blood sugar episode can be countered with orange juice, they will still call the rescue squad.
This is unfortunately, not your call, as it is an issue of liability. All that you can do is refuse any and all medical aid when they come.
answered Jan 14 at 18:13
Richard URichard U
90.1k64231357
You cannot block an employer from calling an ambulance for a medical emergency. I have diabetes, and even though a low blood sugar episode can be countered with orange juice, they will still call the rescue squad.
This is unfortunately, not your call, as it is an issue of liability. All that you can do is refuse any and all medical aid when they come.
answered Jan 14 at 18:13
Richard URichard U
90.1k64231357
answered Jan 14 at 18:13
Richard URichard U
90.1k64231357
answered Jan 14 at 18:13
Richard URichard U
90.1k64231357
answered Jan 14 at 18:13
Richard URichard U
90.1k64231357
90.1k64231357
add a comment |
add a comment |
Knowing whether it would be legal or not would be largely dependent on locale. That said, even if it were legal for you to provide some sort of waiver or agreement to them that said not to call an ambulance, as an employer I'd be deeply uncomfortable with such an arrangement, and I expect many others would be too.
You say that it would "most likely be unnecessary" - which implies that there is a chance it would be necessary. I'm not sure I'd like to be in a position to explain to anyone - lawyers, employer's liability insurers, and least of all to an employee's grieving relatives why we didn't call an ambulance when they were seizing.
edited Jan 14 at 19:14
yoozer8
4,15342955
answered Jan 14 at 17:21
motosubatsumotosubatsu
44.9k24118179
The sun will most likely rise tomorrow. There's a chance it won't. Are you going to spend a lot of time preparing for the chance that it won't?
– only_pro
Jan 14 at 17:26
3
I seriously doubt any employer would allow themselves to be put in a situation where they had to rely on the goodwill of family, employee or their trial lawyers to not fight such an agreement as irrelevant if they followed the employee's wishes and it would up with the employee being seriously harmed. There would be massive legal costs as the courts hashed out "but they specifically told us not to call an ambulance" vs "not for something that serious. Employer should have known better, was negligent and is liable."
– PoloHoleSet
Jan 14 at 17:44
3
@only_pro Not a great analogy, considering the liability on the company is huge if there are in fact medical consequences from not getting the OP medical attention.
– element11
Jan 14 at 17:46
@element11 I'm just pointing out the flaws in the logic used in this answer.
– only_pro
Jan 14 at 18:09
23
@only_pro No, your analogy is silly for two reasons. First, the chance of the sun not rising tomorrow is microscopically small, whereas the chance of serious medical complications arising from a seizure are not small, even for someone who experiences them regularly, and usually has no serious problem. Second, there is no reasonable or prudent action someone can take to prepare for the sun not coming up, whereas calling an ambulance for someone having a seizure would certainly seem to be prudent, even if only in retrospect, after something untoward happened. It's a tricky problem.
– Charles E. Grant
Jan 14 at 18:29
add a comment |
Knowing whether it would be legal or not would be largely dependent on locale. That said, even if it were legal for you to provide some sort of waiver or agreement to them that said not to call an ambulance, as an employer I'd be deeply uncomfortable with such an arrangement, and I expect many others would be too.
You say that it would "most likely be unnecessary" - which implies that there is a chance it would be necessary. I'm not sure I'd like to be in a position to explain to anyone - lawyers, employer's liability insurers, and least of all to an employee's grieving relatives why we didn't call an ambulance when they were seizing.
edited Jan 14 at 19:14
yoozer8
4,15342955
answered Jan 14 at 17:21
motosubatsumotosubatsu
44.9k24118179
The sun will most likely rise tomorrow. There's a chance it won't. Are you going to spend a lot of time preparing for the chance that it won't?
– only_pro
Jan 14 at 17:26
3
I seriously doubt any employer would allow themselves to be put in a situation where they had to rely on the goodwill of family, employee or their trial lawyers to not fight such an agreement as irrelevant if they followed the employee's wishes and it would up with the employee being seriously harmed. There would be massive legal costs as the courts hashed out "but they specifically told us not to call an ambulance" vs "not for something that serious. Employer should have known better, was negligent and is liable."
– PoloHoleSet
Jan 14 at 17:44
3
@only_pro Not a great analogy, considering the liability on the company is huge if there are in fact medical consequences from not getting the OP medical attention.
– element11
Jan 14 at 17:46
@element11 I'm just pointing out the flaws in the logic used in this answer.
– only_pro
Jan 14 at 18:09
23
@only_pro No, your analogy is silly for two reasons. First, the chance of the sun not rising tomorrow is microscopically small, whereas the chance of serious medical complications arising from a seizure are not small, even for someone who experiences them regularly, and usually has no serious problem. Second, there is no reasonable or prudent action someone can take to prepare for the sun not coming up, whereas calling an ambulance for someone having a seizure would certainly seem to be prudent, even if only in retrospect, after something untoward happened. It's a tricky problem.
– Charles E. Grant
Jan 14 at 18:29
add a comment |
Knowing whether it would be legal or not would be largely dependent on locale. That said, even if it were legal for you to provide some sort of waiver or agreement to them that said not to call an ambulance, as an employer I'd be deeply uncomfortable with such an arrangement, and I expect many others would be too.
You say that it would "most likely be unnecessary" - which implies that there is a chance it would be necessary. I'm not sure I'd like to be in a position to explain to anyone - lawyers, employer's liability insurers, and least of all to an employee's grieving relatives why we didn't call an ambulance when they were seizing.
edited Jan 14 at 19:14
yoozer8
4,15342955
answered Jan 14 at 17:21
motosubatsumotosubatsu
44.9k24118179
Knowing whether it would be legal or not would be largely dependent on locale. That said, even if it were legal for you to provide some sort of waiver or agreement to them that said not to call an ambulance, as an employer I'd be deeply uncomfortable with such an arrangement, and I expect many others would be too.
You say that it would "most likely be unnecessary" - which implies that there is a chance it would be necessary. I'm not sure I'd like to be in a position to explain to anyone - lawyers, employer's liability insurers, and least of all to an employee's grieving relatives why we didn't call an ambulance when they were seizing.
edited Jan 14 at 19:14
yoozer8
4,15342955
answered Jan 14 at 17:21
motosubatsumotosubatsu
44.9k24118179
edited Jan 14 at 19:14
yoozer8
4,15342955
edited Jan 14 at 19:14
yoozer8
4,15342955
edited Jan 14 at 19:14
yoozer8
4,15342955
4,15342955
answered Jan 14 at 17:21
motosubatsumotosubatsu
44.9k24118179
answered Jan 14 at 17:21
motosubatsumotosubatsu
44.9k24118179
answered Jan 14 at 17:21
motosubatsumotosubatsu
44.9k24118179
44.9k24118179
The sun will most likely rise tomorrow. There's a chance it won't. Are you going to spend a lot of time preparing for the chance that it won't?
– only_pro
Jan 14 at 17:26
3
I seriously doubt any employer would allow themselves to be put in a situation where they had to rely on the goodwill of family, employee or their trial lawyers to not fight such an agreement as irrelevant if they followed the employee's wishes and it would up with the employee being seriously harmed. There would be massive legal costs as the courts hashed out "but they specifically told us not to call an ambulance" vs "not for something that serious. Employer should have known better, was negligent and is liable."
– PoloHoleSet
Jan 14 at 17:44
3
@only_pro Not a great analogy, considering the liability on the company is huge if there are in fact medical consequences from not getting the OP medical attention.
– element11
Jan 14 at 17:46
@element11 I'm just pointing out the flaws in the logic used in this answer.
– only_pro
Jan 14 at 18:09
23
@only_pro No, your analogy is silly for two reasons. First, the chance of the sun not rising tomorrow is microscopically small, whereas the chance of serious medical complications arising from a seizure are not small, even for someone who experiences them regularly, and usually has no serious problem. Second, there is no reasonable or prudent action someone can take to prepare for the sun not coming up, whereas calling an ambulance for someone having a seizure would certainly seem to be prudent, even if only in retrospect, after something untoward happened. It's a tricky problem.
– Charles E. Grant
Jan 14 at 18:29
add a comment |
The sun will most likely rise tomorrow. There's a chance it won't. Are you going to spend a lot of time preparing for the chance that it won't?
– only_pro
Jan 14 at 17:26
3
I seriously doubt any employer would allow themselves to be put in a situation where they had to rely on the goodwill of family, employee or their trial lawyers to not fight such an agreement as irrelevant if they followed the employee's wishes and it would up with the employee being seriously harmed. There would be massive legal costs as the courts hashed out "but they specifically told us not to call an ambulance" vs "not for something that serious. Employer should have known better, was negligent and is liable."
– PoloHoleSet
Jan 14 at 17:44
3
@only_pro Not a great analogy, considering the liability on the company is huge if there are in fact medical consequences from not getting the OP medical attention.
– element11
Jan 14 at 17:46
@element11 I'm just pointing out the flaws in the logic used in this answer.
– only_pro
Jan 14 at 18:09
23
@only_pro No, your analogy is silly for two reasons. First, the chance of the sun not rising tomorrow is microscopically small, whereas the chance of serious medical complications arising from a seizure are not small, even for someone who experiences them regularly, and usually has no serious problem. Second, there is no reasonable or prudent action someone can take to prepare for the sun not coming up, whereas calling an ambulance for someone having a seizure would certainly seem to be prudent, even if only in retrospect, after something untoward happened. It's a tricky problem.
– Charles E. Grant
Jan 14 at 18:29
The sun will most likely rise tomorrow. There's a chance it won't. Are you going to spend a lot of time preparing for the chance that it won't?
– only_pro
Jan 14 at 17:26
The sun will most likely rise tomorrow. There's a chance it won't. Are you going to spend a lot of time preparing for the chance that it won't?
– only_pro
Jan 14 at 17:26
3
3
I seriously doubt any employer would allow themselves to be put in a situation where they had to rely on the goodwill of family, employee or their trial lawyers to not fight such an agreement as irrelevant if they followed the employee's wishes and it would up with the employee being seriously harmed. There would be massive legal costs as the courts hashed out "but they specifically told us not to call an ambulance" vs "not for something that serious. Employer should have known better, was negligent and is liable."
– PoloHoleSet
Jan 14 at 17:44
I seriously doubt any employer would allow themselves to be put in a situation where they had to rely on the goodwill of family, employee or their trial lawyers to not fight such an agreement as irrelevant if they followed the employee's wishes and it would up with the employee being seriously harmed. There would be massive legal costs as the courts hashed out "but they specifically told us not to call an ambulance" vs "not for something that serious. Employer should have known better, was negligent and is liable."
– PoloHoleSet
Jan 14 at 17:44
3
3
@only_pro Not a great analogy, considering the liability on the company is huge if there are in fact medical consequences from not getting the OP medical attention.
– element11
Jan 14 at 17:46
@only_pro Not a great analogy, considering the liability on the company is huge if there are in fact medical consequences from not getting the OP medical attention.
– element11
Jan 14 at 17:46
@element11 I'm just pointing out the flaws in the logic used in this answer.
– only_pro
Jan 14 at 18:09
@element11 I'm just pointing out the flaws in the logic used in this answer.
– only_pro
Jan 14 at 18:09
23
23
@only_pro No, your analogy is silly for two reasons. First, the chance of the sun not rising tomorrow is microscopically small, whereas the chance of serious medical complications arising from a seizure are not small, even for someone who experiences them regularly, and usually has no serious problem. Second, there is no reasonable or prudent action someone can take to prepare for the sun not coming up, whereas calling an ambulance for someone having a seizure would certainly seem to be prudent, even if only in retrospect, after something untoward happened. It's a tricky problem.
– Charles E. Grant
Jan 14 at 18:29
@only_pro No, your analogy is silly for two reasons. First, the chance of the sun not rising tomorrow is microscopically small, whereas the chance of serious medical complications arising from a seizure are not small, even for someone who experiences them regularly, and usually has no serious problem. Second, there is no reasonable or prudent action someone can take to prepare for the sun not coming up, whereas calling an ambulance for someone having a seizure would certainly seem to be prudent, even if only in retrospect, after something untoward happened. It's a tricky problem.
– Charles E. Grant
Jan 14 at 18:29
add a comment |
Unless your employer and colleagues are trained medical professionals that can diagnose a seizure where medical attention is not necessary, there is nothing you can do to prevent them from calling an ambulance should you have any issue. That being said, they will not be charged for calling an ambulance and neither will you.
answered Jan 14 at 17:52
sf02sf02
4,4632521
4
Those of us trained in first aid have an idea when it's time to call an ambulance. And you are right, in most places, calling them results in no charges. You are only charged if they actually take you to the hospital. But this is not a universal truth for every state. In some states the casualty is required to sue the caller to pay for the ambulance.
– Trevor D
Jan 14 at 18:10
@Pac0 that's unfortunate as that leads to first responders not wanting to help for fear of being tracked down and sued for ambulance payments.
– Trevor D
2 days ago
add a comment |
Unless your employer and colleagues are trained medical professionals that can diagnose a seizure where medical attention is not necessary, there is nothing you can do to prevent them from calling an ambulance should you have any issue. That being said, they will not be charged for calling an ambulance and neither will you.
answered Jan 14 at 17:52
sf02sf02
4,4632521
4
Those of us trained in first aid have an idea when it's time to call an ambulance. And you are right, in most places, calling them results in no charges. You are only charged if they actually take you to the hospital. But this is not a universal truth for every state. In some states the casualty is required to sue the caller to pay for the ambulance.
– Trevor D
Jan 14 at 18:10
@Pac0 that's unfortunate as that leads to first responders not wanting to help for fear of being tracked down and sued for ambulance payments.
– Trevor D
2 days ago
add a comment |
Unless your employer and colleagues are trained medical professionals that can diagnose a seizure where medical attention is not necessary, there is nothing you can do to prevent them from calling an ambulance should you have any issue. That being said, they will not be charged for calling an ambulance and neither will you.
answered Jan 14 at 17:52
sf02sf02
4,4632521
Unless your employer and colleagues are trained medical professionals that can diagnose a seizure where medical attention is not necessary, there is nothing you can do to prevent them from calling an ambulance should you have any issue. That being said, they will not be charged for calling an ambulance and neither will you.
answered Jan 14 at 17:52
sf02sf02
4,4632521
answered Jan 14 at 17:52
sf02sf02
4,4632521
answered Jan 14 at 17:52
sf02sf02
4,4632521
answered Jan 14 at 17:52
sf02sf02
4,4632521
4,4632521
4
Those of us trained in first aid have an idea when it's time to call an ambulance. And you are right, in most places, calling them results in no charges. You are only charged if they actually take you to the hospital. But this is not a universal truth for every state. In some states the casualty is required to sue the caller to pay for the ambulance.
– Trevor D
Jan 14 at 18:10
@Pac0 that's unfortunate as that leads to first responders not wanting to help for fear of being tracked down and sued for ambulance payments.
– Trevor D
2 days ago
add a comment |
4
Those of us trained in first aid have an idea when it's time to call an ambulance. And you are right, in most places, calling them results in no charges. You are only charged if they actually take you to the hospital. But this is not a universal truth for every state. In some states the casualty is required to sue the caller to pay for the ambulance.
– Trevor D
Jan 14 at 18:10
@Pac0 that's unfortunate as that leads to first responders not wanting to help for fear of being tracked down and sued for ambulance payments.
– Trevor D
2 days ago
4
4
Those of us trained in first aid have an idea when it's time to call an ambulance. And you are right, in most places, calling them results in no charges. You are only charged if they actually take you to the hospital. But this is not a universal truth for every state. In some states the casualty is required to sue the caller to pay for the ambulance.
– Trevor D
Jan 14 at 18:10
Those of us trained in first aid have an idea when it's time to call an ambulance. And you are right, in most places, calling them results in no charges. You are only charged if they actually take you to the hospital. But this is not a universal truth for every state. In some states the casualty is required to sue the caller to pay for the ambulance.
– Trevor D
Jan 14 at 18:10
@Pac0 that's unfortunate as that leads to first responders not wanting to help for fear of being tracked down and sued for ambulance payments.
– Trevor D
2 days ago
@Pac0 that's unfortunate as that leads to first responders not wanting to help for fear of being tracked down and sued for ambulance payments.
– Trevor D
2 days ago
add a comment |
I am not a lawyer neither I am HR, bu if I were HR, I would probably frown upon this "prohibition clause" and instructs coworkers not to comply (and call an ambulance if needed), unless there is insurance that there is no risk for the company.
Why ? Imagine the following scenario :
You have a seizure.
Unfortunately, this is not one of your usual, or some nasty other thing happen in the same time
coworkers can't tell the difference, ambulance is not called.
You lose your life or left with heavy / irreparable damage
You or your relatives sue the company for non-assistance.
-> Company must pay heavy compensation (and may get some bad reputation)
(and, as an off-topic side effect, it's also bad for you too)
I can imagine such a "play with employee's life" clause possible if, for instance there is a already recognized medical staff that could take the responsibility to not call the ambulance in the emergency situation.
In any case, if you still want to take this risk for yourself, you should go see a lawyer and / or your doctor.
They are the people who can have knowledge of similar legal situations and find a way to make such a clause possible and riskless for the company, if it is possible.
answered Jan 14 at 21:36
Pac0Pac0
41719
add a comment |
I am not a lawyer neither I am HR, bu if I were HR, I would probably frown upon this "prohibition clause" and instructs coworkers not to comply (and call an ambulance if needed), unless there is insurance that there is no risk for the company.
Why ? Imagine the following scenario :
You have a seizure.
Unfortunately, this is not one of your usual, or some nasty other thing happen in the same time
coworkers can't tell the difference, ambulance is not called.
You lose your life or left with heavy / irreparable damage
You or your relatives sue the company for non-assistance.
-> Company must pay heavy compensation (and may get some bad reputation)
(and, as an off-topic side effect, it's also bad for you too)
I can imagine such a "play with employee's life" clause possible if, for instance there is a already recognized medical staff that could take the responsibility to not call the ambulance in the emergency situation.
In any case, if you still want to take this risk for yourself, you should go see a lawyer and / or your doctor.
They are the people who can have knowledge of similar legal situations and find a way to make such a clause possible and riskless for the company, if it is possible.
answered Jan 14 at 21:36
Pac0Pac0
41719
add a comment |
I am not a lawyer neither I am HR, bu if I were HR, I would probably frown upon this "prohibition clause" and instructs coworkers not to comply (and call an ambulance if needed), unless there is insurance that there is no risk for the company.
Why ? Imagine the following scenario :
You have a seizure.
Unfortunately, this is not one of your usual, or some nasty other thing happen in the same time
coworkers can't tell the difference, ambulance is not called.
You lose your life or left with heavy / irreparable damage
You or your relatives sue the company for non-assistance.
-> Company must pay heavy compensation (and may get some bad reputation)
(and, as an off-topic side effect, it's also bad for you too)
I can imagine such a "play with employee's life" clause possible if, for instance there is a already recognized medical staff that could take the responsibility to not call the ambulance in the emergency situation.
In any case, if you still want to take this risk for yourself, you should go see a lawyer and / or your doctor.
They are the people who can have knowledge of similar legal situations and find a way to make such a clause possible and riskless for the company, if it is possible.
answered Jan 14 at 21:36
Pac0Pac0
41719
I am not a lawyer neither I am HR, bu if I were HR, I would probably frown upon this "prohibition clause" and instructs coworkers not to comply (and call an ambulance if needed), unless there is insurance that there is no risk for the company.
Why ? Imagine the following scenario :
You have a seizure.
Unfortunately, this is not one of your usual, or some nasty other thing happen in the same time
coworkers can't tell the difference, ambulance is not called.
You lose your life or left with heavy / irreparable damage
You or your relatives sue the company for non-assistance.
-> Company must pay heavy compensation (and may get some bad reputation)
(and, as an off-topic side effect, it's also bad for you too)
I can imagine such a "play with employee's life" clause possible if, for instance there is a already recognized medical staff that could take the responsibility to not call the ambulance in the emergency situation.
In any case, if you still want to take this risk for yourself, you should go see a lawyer and / or your doctor.
They are the people who can have knowledge of similar legal situations and find a way to make such a clause possible and riskless for the company, if it is possible.
answered Jan 14 at 21:36
Pac0Pac0
41719
edited 2 days ago
answered Jan 14 at 21:36
Pac0Pac0
41719
answered Jan 14 at 21:36
Pac0Pac0
41719
answered Jan 14 at 21:36
Pac0Pac0
41719
41719
add a comment |
add a comment |
12
Please let us know where (country, province, region, state) this is.
– Richard U
Jan 14 at 17:16
11
@SandraK no, it doesn't mean that the employer would have to pay for it. I just went through this myself.
– Richard U
Jan 14 at 17:16
8
@LordFarquaad "Not messy" is not frequently used to describe the US healthcare system
– Azor Ahai
Jan 14 at 20:07
2
@LordFarquaad I work in a hospital, so I doubt they'd send one, instead of just asking me to come upstairs
– Azor Ahai
Jan 14 at 21:00
3
@DJClayworth The caller is not generally responsible for the ambulance bill (hoax calls excepted), but the subject of the call often is. A complicating issue is that there may be liability for the employer if the OP experiences something that presents sort of like a "normal" seizure but isn't as harmless. If the OP wants to sign a specific contract waiving any possible legal action should an ambulance fail to be called, ever, maybe. But I wouldn't count on every employee getting that memo. Applying "reasonableness" or "common sense" to U.S. medical billing is nearly always a mistake.
– Upper_Case
Jan 14 at 23:24