Why is the composition of a surjective and injective function neither surjective nor injective?
I am currently preparing for an exam coming up and I was therefore looking in earlier exam-sets, and found a question with a solution I just cannot make sense in my head.
Let $A, B, C$ be three arbitrary sets, $fcolon Bto C$ be a surjective function and $gcolon A to B$ be an injective function. Then the composition $fcirc g$ is?
- Injective
- Surjective
- Bijectie
- Neither injective nor surjective
The answer-sheet suggests that the composition of these two functions should neither be injective nor surjective. Whenever I try drawing functions by example however, it seems easy to make a composition that is both injective and surjective.
Thanks.
functions elementary-set-theory function-and-relation-composition
New contributor
add a comment |
I am currently preparing for an exam coming up and I was therefore looking in earlier exam-sets, and found a question with a solution I just cannot make sense in my head.
Let $A, B, C$ be three arbitrary sets, $fcolon Bto C$ be a surjective function and $gcolon A to B$ be an injective function. Then the composition $fcirc g$ is?
- Injective
- Surjective
- Bijectie
- Neither injective nor surjective
The answer-sheet suggests that the composition of these two functions should neither be injective nor surjective. Whenever I try drawing functions by example however, it seems easy to make a composition that is both injective and surjective.
Thanks.
functions elementary-set-theory function-and-relation-composition
New contributor
4
The problem is poorly worded. The correct answer is "we can't make any conclusions".
– MathematicsStudent1122
2 days ago
add a comment |
I am currently preparing for an exam coming up and I was therefore looking in earlier exam-sets, and found a question with a solution I just cannot make sense in my head.
Let $A, B, C$ be three arbitrary sets, $fcolon Bto C$ be a surjective function and $gcolon A to B$ be an injective function. Then the composition $fcirc g$ is?
- Injective
- Surjective
- Bijectie
- Neither injective nor surjective
The answer-sheet suggests that the composition of these two functions should neither be injective nor surjective. Whenever I try drawing functions by example however, it seems easy to make a composition that is both injective and surjective.
Thanks.
functions elementary-set-theory function-and-relation-composition
New contributor
I am currently preparing for an exam coming up and I was therefore looking in earlier exam-sets, and found a question with a solution I just cannot make sense in my head.
Let $A, B, C$ be three arbitrary sets, $fcolon Bto C$ be a surjective function and $gcolon A to B$ be an injective function. Then the composition $fcirc g$ is?
- Injective
- Surjective
- Bijectie
- Neither injective nor surjective
The answer-sheet suggests that the composition of these two functions should neither be injective nor surjective. Whenever I try drawing functions by example however, it seems easy to make a composition that is both injective and surjective.
Thanks.
functions elementary-set-theory function-and-relation-composition
functions elementary-set-theory function-and-relation-composition
New contributor
New contributor
edited 2 days ago
Asaf Karagila♦
302k32426756
302k32426756
New contributor
asked 2 days ago
Carrazo
31
31
New contributor
New contributor
4
The problem is poorly worded. The correct answer is "we can't make any conclusions".
– MathematicsStudent1122
2 days ago
add a comment |
4
The problem is poorly worded. The correct answer is "we can't make any conclusions".
– MathematicsStudent1122
2 days ago
4
4
The problem is poorly worded. The correct answer is "we can't make any conclusions".
– MathematicsStudent1122
2 days ago
The problem is poorly worded. The correct answer is "we can't make any conclusions".
– MathematicsStudent1122
2 days ago
add a comment |
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
Of course you can construct examples where the composition is injective, or where it is surjective. But the point is that you can also construct examples where neither of these properties is fulfilled. The question has to be interpreted in the way "Can one conclude from $f$ being surjective and $g$ being injective that the composition is necessarily surjective, etc.?'' And this is not the case.
1
Thank you for the answer, but would you then agree, following that logic, that we cannot conclude either that the composition of the two functions necessarily is not injective nor surjective?
– Carrazo
2 days ago
1
@Carrazo Yes, I agree. The problem is wrongly formulated.
– Gerhard S.
2 days ago
add a comment |
The answer to the question, as it is written, should probably be "There is not enough information to conclude anything about the injectivity or surjectivity of the composition." However, as this is clearly not the intended answer (as it is not an option in your list of multiple choices), we have to get into the heads of the question writers and try to figure out what they meant to ask. My reading of the question is that it would better be phrased as
Let $A$, $B$, $C$ be three arbitrary sets, $f : B to C$ be a surjective function and $g : A to B$ be an injective function. Which of the following statements is true:
$gcirc f$ is always injective.
$gcirc f$ is always surjective.
$gcirc f$ is always bijective.
In this phrasing, the correct answer is that all three statements are false. Again, there isn't enough information to conclude anything about the surjectiveity or injectivity of the composition. To see this, we need only construct two counterexamples:
Let $A = {ast}$ be a singleton set, and let $B = C = { a, b }$ be a set with two elements. Define $g : A to B$ by $g(ast) = a$, and take $f : B to C$ to be the identity map. Then the composition $fcirc g$ is injective (any map from a singleton set to any other set must be injective), but is not surjective ($b$ is not the image of any point in $A$ under the composition). Therefore the composition needn't be surjective (which also means that it needn't be bijective, as every bijective map is necessarily surjective).
Let $A = B = {a, b}$ be a set with two elements, and $C = {ast}$ be a singleton set. Let $f : Ato B$ be the identity map, and let $g : Bto C$ be the only possible map, i.e. the function defined by $g(x) = ast$ for all $xin B$. Then the composition $fcirc g$ is surjective, but not injective. Therefore the composition needn't be injective.
Note that we can construct examples of sets $A$, $B$, and $C$, and maps $f : Ato B$ and $g : B to C$ such that the composition $fcirc g$ is injective (but not surjective), surjective (but not injective), or bijective. However, simply knowing that $f$ is injective and that $g$ is surjective is not enough to tell us anything about the properties of the composition.
add a comment |
You can make the composition both injective and surjective (the easiest example is to take $f$ and $g$ to both be the identity map on $A = B = C$). The point is that you can't conclude, from the data provided, that it's either. The easy way to see this is to have one of $f$ and $g$ be the identity, and the other either surjective but not injective or injective but not surjective: then the composition is just the same as the non-identity one, which doesn't have the relevant property.
I can understand that we cannot necessarily conclude from what is provided that it is either injective or surjective. But how can we conclude that it in fact is neither? Excuse me if I'm just completely misunderstanding the question.
– Carrazo
2 days ago
You can't, see my example. Indeed, even if $f$ is not injective and $g$ is not surjective, you still can't conclude that: take $V$ a vector space and $U$ a proper subspace, take $f$ to be the projection from $V$ to $U$, and take $g$ to be the inclusion from $U$ to $V$. Then $f$ is surjective but not injective, $g$ is injective but not surjective, and $fcirc g$ is the identity on $U$, so is bijective.
– user3482749
2 days ago
add a comment |
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3 Answers
3
active
oldest
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3 Answers
3
active
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Of course you can construct examples where the composition is injective, or where it is surjective. But the point is that you can also construct examples where neither of these properties is fulfilled. The question has to be interpreted in the way "Can one conclude from $f$ being surjective and $g$ being injective that the composition is necessarily surjective, etc.?'' And this is not the case.
1
Thank you for the answer, but would you then agree, following that logic, that we cannot conclude either that the composition of the two functions necessarily is not injective nor surjective?
– Carrazo
2 days ago
1
@Carrazo Yes, I agree. The problem is wrongly formulated.
– Gerhard S.
2 days ago
add a comment |
Of course you can construct examples where the composition is injective, or where it is surjective. But the point is that you can also construct examples where neither of these properties is fulfilled. The question has to be interpreted in the way "Can one conclude from $f$ being surjective and $g$ being injective that the composition is necessarily surjective, etc.?'' And this is not the case.
1
Thank you for the answer, but would you then agree, following that logic, that we cannot conclude either that the composition of the two functions necessarily is not injective nor surjective?
– Carrazo
2 days ago
1
@Carrazo Yes, I agree. The problem is wrongly formulated.
– Gerhard S.
2 days ago
add a comment |
Of course you can construct examples where the composition is injective, or where it is surjective. But the point is that you can also construct examples where neither of these properties is fulfilled. The question has to be interpreted in the way "Can one conclude from $f$ being surjective and $g$ being injective that the composition is necessarily surjective, etc.?'' And this is not the case.
Of course you can construct examples where the composition is injective, or where it is surjective. But the point is that you can also construct examples where neither of these properties is fulfilled. The question has to be interpreted in the way "Can one conclude from $f$ being surjective and $g$ being injective that the composition is necessarily surjective, etc.?'' And this is not the case.
answered 2 days ago
Gerhard S.
99529
99529
1
Thank you for the answer, but would you then agree, following that logic, that we cannot conclude either that the composition of the two functions necessarily is not injective nor surjective?
– Carrazo
2 days ago
1
@Carrazo Yes, I agree. The problem is wrongly formulated.
– Gerhard S.
2 days ago
add a comment |
1
Thank you for the answer, but would you then agree, following that logic, that we cannot conclude either that the composition of the two functions necessarily is not injective nor surjective?
– Carrazo
2 days ago
1
@Carrazo Yes, I agree. The problem is wrongly formulated.
– Gerhard S.
2 days ago
1
1
Thank you for the answer, but would you then agree, following that logic, that we cannot conclude either that the composition of the two functions necessarily is not injective nor surjective?
– Carrazo
2 days ago
Thank you for the answer, but would you then agree, following that logic, that we cannot conclude either that the composition of the two functions necessarily is not injective nor surjective?
– Carrazo
2 days ago
1
1
@Carrazo Yes, I agree. The problem is wrongly formulated.
– Gerhard S.
2 days ago
@Carrazo Yes, I agree. The problem is wrongly formulated.
– Gerhard S.
2 days ago
add a comment |
The answer to the question, as it is written, should probably be "There is not enough information to conclude anything about the injectivity or surjectivity of the composition." However, as this is clearly not the intended answer (as it is not an option in your list of multiple choices), we have to get into the heads of the question writers and try to figure out what they meant to ask. My reading of the question is that it would better be phrased as
Let $A$, $B$, $C$ be three arbitrary sets, $f : B to C$ be a surjective function and $g : A to B$ be an injective function. Which of the following statements is true:
$gcirc f$ is always injective.
$gcirc f$ is always surjective.
$gcirc f$ is always bijective.
In this phrasing, the correct answer is that all three statements are false. Again, there isn't enough information to conclude anything about the surjectiveity or injectivity of the composition. To see this, we need only construct two counterexamples:
Let $A = {ast}$ be a singleton set, and let $B = C = { a, b }$ be a set with two elements. Define $g : A to B$ by $g(ast) = a$, and take $f : B to C$ to be the identity map. Then the composition $fcirc g$ is injective (any map from a singleton set to any other set must be injective), but is not surjective ($b$ is not the image of any point in $A$ under the composition). Therefore the composition needn't be surjective (which also means that it needn't be bijective, as every bijective map is necessarily surjective).
Let $A = B = {a, b}$ be a set with two elements, and $C = {ast}$ be a singleton set. Let $f : Ato B$ be the identity map, and let $g : Bto C$ be the only possible map, i.e. the function defined by $g(x) = ast$ for all $xin B$. Then the composition $fcirc g$ is surjective, but not injective. Therefore the composition needn't be injective.
Note that we can construct examples of sets $A$, $B$, and $C$, and maps $f : Ato B$ and $g : B to C$ such that the composition $fcirc g$ is injective (but not surjective), surjective (but not injective), or bijective. However, simply knowing that $f$ is injective and that $g$ is surjective is not enough to tell us anything about the properties of the composition.
add a comment |
The answer to the question, as it is written, should probably be "There is not enough information to conclude anything about the injectivity or surjectivity of the composition." However, as this is clearly not the intended answer (as it is not an option in your list of multiple choices), we have to get into the heads of the question writers and try to figure out what they meant to ask. My reading of the question is that it would better be phrased as
Let $A$, $B$, $C$ be three arbitrary sets, $f : B to C$ be a surjective function and $g : A to B$ be an injective function. Which of the following statements is true:
$gcirc f$ is always injective.
$gcirc f$ is always surjective.
$gcirc f$ is always bijective.
In this phrasing, the correct answer is that all three statements are false. Again, there isn't enough information to conclude anything about the surjectiveity or injectivity of the composition. To see this, we need only construct two counterexamples:
Let $A = {ast}$ be a singleton set, and let $B = C = { a, b }$ be a set with two elements. Define $g : A to B$ by $g(ast) = a$, and take $f : B to C$ to be the identity map. Then the composition $fcirc g$ is injective (any map from a singleton set to any other set must be injective), but is not surjective ($b$ is not the image of any point in $A$ under the composition). Therefore the composition needn't be surjective (which also means that it needn't be bijective, as every bijective map is necessarily surjective).
Let $A = B = {a, b}$ be a set with two elements, and $C = {ast}$ be a singleton set. Let $f : Ato B$ be the identity map, and let $g : Bto C$ be the only possible map, i.e. the function defined by $g(x) = ast$ for all $xin B$. Then the composition $fcirc g$ is surjective, but not injective. Therefore the composition needn't be injective.
Note that we can construct examples of sets $A$, $B$, and $C$, and maps $f : Ato B$ and $g : B to C$ such that the composition $fcirc g$ is injective (but not surjective), surjective (but not injective), or bijective. However, simply knowing that $f$ is injective and that $g$ is surjective is not enough to tell us anything about the properties of the composition.
add a comment |
The answer to the question, as it is written, should probably be "There is not enough information to conclude anything about the injectivity or surjectivity of the composition." However, as this is clearly not the intended answer (as it is not an option in your list of multiple choices), we have to get into the heads of the question writers and try to figure out what they meant to ask. My reading of the question is that it would better be phrased as
Let $A$, $B$, $C$ be three arbitrary sets, $f : B to C$ be a surjective function and $g : A to B$ be an injective function. Which of the following statements is true:
$gcirc f$ is always injective.
$gcirc f$ is always surjective.
$gcirc f$ is always bijective.
In this phrasing, the correct answer is that all three statements are false. Again, there isn't enough information to conclude anything about the surjectiveity or injectivity of the composition. To see this, we need only construct two counterexamples:
Let $A = {ast}$ be a singleton set, and let $B = C = { a, b }$ be a set with two elements. Define $g : A to B$ by $g(ast) = a$, and take $f : B to C$ to be the identity map. Then the composition $fcirc g$ is injective (any map from a singleton set to any other set must be injective), but is not surjective ($b$ is not the image of any point in $A$ under the composition). Therefore the composition needn't be surjective (which also means that it needn't be bijective, as every bijective map is necessarily surjective).
Let $A = B = {a, b}$ be a set with two elements, and $C = {ast}$ be a singleton set. Let $f : Ato B$ be the identity map, and let $g : Bto C$ be the only possible map, i.e. the function defined by $g(x) = ast$ for all $xin B$. Then the composition $fcirc g$ is surjective, but not injective. Therefore the composition needn't be injective.
Note that we can construct examples of sets $A$, $B$, and $C$, and maps $f : Ato B$ and $g : B to C$ such that the composition $fcirc g$ is injective (but not surjective), surjective (but not injective), or bijective. However, simply knowing that $f$ is injective and that $g$ is surjective is not enough to tell us anything about the properties of the composition.
The answer to the question, as it is written, should probably be "There is not enough information to conclude anything about the injectivity or surjectivity of the composition." However, as this is clearly not the intended answer (as it is not an option in your list of multiple choices), we have to get into the heads of the question writers and try to figure out what they meant to ask. My reading of the question is that it would better be phrased as
Let $A$, $B$, $C$ be three arbitrary sets, $f : B to C$ be a surjective function and $g : A to B$ be an injective function. Which of the following statements is true:
$gcirc f$ is always injective.
$gcirc f$ is always surjective.
$gcirc f$ is always bijective.
In this phrasing, the correct answer is that all three statements are false. Again, there isn't enough information to conclude anything about the surjectiveity or injectivity of the composition. To see this, we need only construct two counterexamples:
Let $A = {ast}$ be a singleton set, and let $B = C = { a, b }$ be a set with two elements. Define $g : A to B$ by $g(ast) = a$, and take $f : B to C$ to be the identity map. Then the composition $fcirc g$ is injective (any map from a singleton set to any other set must be injective), but is not surjective ($b$ is not the image of any point in $A$ under the composition). Therefore the composition needn't be surjective (which also means that it needn't be bijective, as every bijective map is necessarily surjective).
Let $A = B = {a, b}$ be a set with two elements, and $C = {ast}$ be a singleton set. Let $f : Ato B$ be the identity map, and let $g : Bto C$ be the only possible map, i.e. the function defined by $g(x) = ast$ for all $xin B$. Then the composition $fcirc g$ is surjective, but not injective. Therefore the composition needn't be injective.
Note that we can construct examples of sets $A$, $B$, and $C$, and maps $f : Ato B$ and $g : B to C$ such that the composition $fcirc g$ is injective (but not surjective), surjective (but not injective), or bijective. However, simply knowing that $f$ is injective and that $g$ is surjective is not enough to tell us anything about the properties of the composition.
answered 2 days ago
Xander Henderson
14.1k103554
14.1k103554
add a comment |
add a comment |
You can make the composition both injective and surjective (the easiest example is to take $f$ and $g$ to both be the identity map on $A = B = C$). The point is that you can't conclude, from the data provided, that it's either. The easy way to see this is to have one of $f$ and $g$ be the identity, and the other either surjective but not injective or injective but not surjective: then the composition is just the same as the non-identity one, which doesn't have the relevant property.
I can understand that we cannot necessarily conclude from what is provided that it is either injective or surjective. But how can we conclude that it in fact is neither? Excuse me if I'm just completely misunderstanding the question.
– Carrazo
2 days ago
You can't, see my example. Indeed, even if $f$ is not injective and $g$ is not surjective, you still can't conclude that: take $V$ a vector space and $U$ a proper subspace, take $f$ to be the projection from $V$ to $U$, and take $g$ to be the inclusion from $U$ to $V$. Then $f$ is surjective but not injective, $g$ is injective but not surjective, and $fcirc g$ is the identity on $U$, so is bijective.
– user3482749
2 days ago
add a comment |
You can make the composition both injective and surjective (the easiest example is to take $f$ and $g$ to both be the identity map on $A = B = C$). The point is that you can't conclude, from the data provided, that it's either. The easy way to see this is to have one of $f$ and $g$ be the identity, and the other either surjective but not injective or injective but not surjective: then the composition is just the same as the non-identity one, which doesn't have the relevant property.
I can understand that we cannot necessarily conclude from what is provided that it is either injective or surjective. But how can we conclude that it in fact is neither? Excuse me if I'm just completely misunderstanding the question.
– Carrazo
2 days ago
You can't, see my example. Indeed, even if $f$ is not injective and $g$ is not surjective, you still can't conclude that: take $V$ a vector space and $U$ a proper subspace, take $f$ to be the projection from $V$ to $U$, and take $g$ to be the inclusion from $U$ to $V$. Then $f$ is surjective but not injective, $g$ is injective but not surjective, and $fcirc g$ is the identity on $U$, so is bijective.
– user3482749
2 days ago
add a comment |
You can make the composition both injective and surjective (the easiest example is to take $f$ and $g$ to both be the identity map on $A = B = C$). The point is that you can't conclude, from the data provided, that it's either. The easy way to see this is to have one of $f$ and $g$ be the identity, and the other either surjective but not injective or injective but not surjective: then the composition is just the same as the non-identity one, which doesn't have the relevant property.
You can make the composition both injective and surjective (the easiest example is to take $f$ and $g$ to both be the identity map on $A = B = C$). The point is that you can't conclude, from the data provided, that it's either. The easy way to see this is to have one of $f$ and $g$ be the identity, and the other either surjective but not injective or injective but not surjective: then the composition is just the same as the non-identity one, which doesn't have the relevant property.
answered 2 days ago
user3482749
2,753414
2,753414
I can understand that we cannot necessarily conclude from what is provided that it is either injective or surjective. But how can we conclude that it in fact is neither? Excuse me if I'm just completely misunderstanding the question.
– Carrazo
2 days ago
You can't, see my example. Indeed, even if $f$ is not injective and $g$ is not surjective, you still can't conclude that: take $V$ a vector space and $U$ a proper subspace, take $f$ to be the projection from $V$ to $U$, and take $g$ to be the inclusion from $U$ to $V$. Then $f$ is surjective but not injective, $g$ is injective but not surjective, and $fcirc g$ is the identity on $U$, so is bijective.
– user3482749
2 days ago
add a comment |
I can understand that we cannot necessarily conclude from what is provided that it is either injective or surjective. But how can we conclude that it in fact is neither? Excuse me if I'm just completely misunderstanding the question.
– Carrazo
2 days ago
You can't, see my example. Indeed, even if $f$ is not injective and $g$ is not surjective, you still can't conclude that: take $V$ a vector space and $U$ a proper subspace, take $f$ to be the projection from $V$ to $U$, and take $g$ to be the inclusion from $U$ to $V$. Then $f$ is surjective but not injective, $g$ is injective but not surjective, and $fcirc g$ is the identity on $U$, so is bijective.
– user3482749
2 days ago
I can understand that we cannot necessarily conclude from what is provided that it is either injective or surjective. But how can we conclude that it in fact is neither? Excuse me if I'm just completely misunderstanding the question.
– Carrazo
2 days ago
I can understand that we cannot necessarily conclude from what is provided that it is either injective or surjective. But how can we conclude that it in fact is neither? Excuse me if I'm just completely misunderstanding the question.
– Carrazo
2 days ago
You can't, see my example. Indeed, even if $f$ is not injective and $g$ is not surjective, you still can't conclude that: take $V$ a vector space and $U$ a proper subspace, take $f$ to be the projection from $V$ to $U$, and take $g$ to be the inclusion from $U$ to $V$. Then $f$ is surjective but not injective, $g$ is injective but not surjective, and $fcirc g$ is the identity on $U$, so is bijective.
– user3482749
2 days ago
You can't, see my example. Indeed, even if $f$ is not injective and $g$ is not surjective, you still can't conclude that: take $V$ a vector space and $U$ a proper subspace, take $f$ to be the projection from $V$ to $U$, and take $g$ to be the inclusion from $U$ to $V$. Then $f$ is surjective but not injective, $g$ is injective but not surjective, and $fcirc g$ is the identity on $U$, so is bijective.
– user3482749
2 days ago
add a comment |
Carrazo is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Carrazo is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Carrazo is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
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The problem is poorly worded. The correct answer is "we can't make any conclusions".
– MathematicsStudent1122
2 days ago