How did historians find out about the undoctored version of Stalin's doctored photographs?












7














Stalin ordered some photographs to be altered because his enemies were in it. How did historians get their hands on the undoctored version? Because many a sources describe this as erasing the people from history by erasing them from the photographs. so how did they get their hand son the original?










share|improve this question









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anon is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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  • 6




    I don't know the actual answer in this specific case, but there's a couple of ways the originals could survive. (1) photographs were developed from film in the old days, and Soviet photoshoppers would've made a print from the original to work on, which then gets copied (possibly by photographing it again) for distribution. So the original film negative would still be undoctored, and likely weren't destroyed. (2) Stalin regularly ordered photos from years/decades ago to be changed. But the originals would've already been in public circulation, and it's quite possibly they weren't all destroyed.
    – Semaphore
    2 days ago








  • 1




    May I recommend The Commissar vanishes by David King? <en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Commissar_Vanishes>
    – Mark Olson
    2 days ago
















7














Stalin ordered some photographs to be altered because his enemies were in it. How did historians get their hands on the undoctored version? Because many a sources describe this as erasing the people from history by erasing them from the photographs. so how did they get their hand son the original?










share|improve this question









New contributor




anon is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
















  • 6




    I don't know the actual answer in this specific case, but there's a couple of ways the originals could survive. (1) photographs were developed from film in the old days, and Soviet photoshoppers would've made a print from the original to work on, which then gets copied (possibly by photographing it again) for distribution. So the original film negative would still be undoctored, and likely weren't destroyed. (2) Stalin regularly ordered photos from years/decades ago to be changed. But the originals would've already been in public circulation, and it's quite possibly they weren't all destroyed.
    – Semaphore
    2 days ago








  • 1




    May I recommend The Commissar vanishes by David King? <en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Commissar_Vanishes>
    – Mark Olson
    2 days ago














7












7








7







Stalin ordered some photographs to be altered because his enemies were in it. How did historians get their hands on the undoctored version? Because many a sources describe this as erasing the people from history by erasing them from the photographs. so how did they get their hand son the original?










share|improve this question









New contributor




anon is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











Stalin ordered some photographs to be altered because his enemies were in it. How did historians get their hands on the undoctored version? Because many a sources describe this as erasing the people from history by erasing them from the photographs. so how did they get their hand son the original?







stalin






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New contributor




anon is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











share|improve this question









New contributor




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Check out our Code of Conduct.









share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 2 days ago









Community

1




1






New contributor




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asked 2 days ago









anonanon

4712




4712




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anon is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.








  • 6




    I don't know the actual answer in this specific case, but there's a couple of ways the originals could survive. (1) photographs were developed from film in the old days, and Soviet photoshoppers would've made a print from the original to work on, which then gets copied (possibly by photographing it again) for distribution. So the original film negative would still be undoctored, and likely weren't destroyed. (2) Stalin regularly ordered photos from years/decades ago to be changed. But the originals would've already been in public circulation, and it's quite possibly they weren't all destroyed.
    – Semaphore
    2 days ago








  • 1




    May I recommend The Commissar vanishes by David King? <en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Commissar_Vanishes>
    – Mark Olson
    2 days ago














  • 6




    I don't know the actual answer in this specific case, but there's a couple of ways the originals could survive. (1) photographs were developed from film in the old days, and Soviet photoshoppers would've made a print from the original to work on, which then gets copied (possibly by photographing it again) for distribution. So the original film negative would still be undoctored, and likely weren't destroyed. (2) Stalin regularly ordered photos from years/decades ago to be changed. But the originals would've already been in public circulation, and it's quite possibly they weren't all destroyed.
    – Semaphore
    2 days ago








  • 1




    May I recommend The Commissar vanishes by David King? <en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Commissar_Vanishes>
    – Mark Olson
    2 days ago








6




6




I don't know the actual answer in this specific case, but there's a couple of ways the originals could survive. (1) photographs were developed from film in the old days, and Soviet photoshoppers would've made a print from the original to work on, which then gets copied (possibly by photographing it again) for distribution. So the original film negative would still be undoctored, and likely weren't destroyed. (2) Stalin regularly ordered photos from years/decades ago to be changed. But the originals would've already been in public circulation, and it's quite possibly they weren't all destroyed.
– Semaphore
2 days ago






I don't know the actual answer in this specific case, but there's a couple of ways the originals could survive. (1) photographs were developed from film in the old days, and Soviet photoshoppers would've made a print from the original to work on, which then gets copied (possibly by photographing it again) for distribution. So the original film negative would still be undoctored, and likely weren't destroyed. (2) Stalin regularly ordered photos from years/decades ago to be changed. But the originals would've already been in public circulation, and it's quite possibly they weren't all destroyed.
– Semaphore
2 days ago






1




1




May I recommend The Commissar vanishes by David King? <en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Commissar_Vanishes>
– Mark Olson
2 days ago




May I recommend The Commissar vanishes by David King? <en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Commissar_Vanishes>
– Mark Olson
2 days ago










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















12














I found the answer:




It’s thought that Stalin’s obsession with photo doctoring constituted a mini industry in the USSR. Publishers were contacted by Stalin’s minions and told to eliminate the enemy du jour from upcoming photos—and they did. According to art historian Peter King, who uncovered thousands of doctored photos and their original versions, the work was not performed in one location or even through an official ministry.




from How Photos Became a Weapon in Stalin’s Great Purge.






share|improve this answer










New contributor




anon is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.














  • 2




    Are you the same anon as the questioner?
    – LarsTech
    yesterday






  • 1




    @LarsTech no as the 2 a ons have different gravitas and different reputation.
    – Mark
    yesterday










  • @Mark It was sarcasm for a person with two accounts. Might not be, just seems...odd. Same name. Accounts created at the same time. One question. One answer.
    – LarsTech
    yesterday










  • @LarsTech anon is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
    – ThePassenger
    20 hours ago



















7














Originals of these doctored photographs of course survived. In most cases the photograph was published shortly after it was made. At a later time it was doctored and published again.
Then every effort was made to remove the original version from public circulation.
Let me mention that access to OLD newspapers was always restricted in Soviet times.
They were kept in some libraries in closed storages. To access this closed storage in scientific libraries for research purposes one had to obtain special permission.
Most public libraries did not keep old newspapers.



Moreover, books were removed from the libraries. My father was a director of a large scientific library in 1930s. He told me that EVERY WEEK special people came with the lists of books to be removed.



It was not illegal for a private person to collect books or newspapers. However, if some undesirable item was found in your possession, you would have to answer unpleasant questions, and most people tried to avoid this.



Anyway, all these old photographs could be eventually found in special storages and private collections.



Most of these doctored photographs included Lenin or Stalin with people who later became undesirable. After Stalin’s death this practice continued. For example when Beria was suddenly dismissed and killed, they had just printed the volume of Great Soviet Encyclopedia which contained a long article "Beria". All copies of this volume had to be urgently replaced. The new version had a VERY long
article about the Bering Strait, specially written to occupy the needed number of pages:-) Of course all photographs of Beria suddenly disappeared.
Same happened (on a smaller scale) with Khrushchev's portraits when he was dismissed.



Extraordinary efforts were made since June 1941 to remove all photographs of Molotov/Stalin together with Ribbentrop. But of course many survived as you can see on Internet. (And Ribbentrop paid with his life in the Nuremberg trial for these photographs).






share|improve this answer























  • Regarding collecting books or newspapers—my wife grew up in Soviet Russia. As a child she read several illegal books, including a text on meditation and "Animal Farm" by George Orwell. How did she get these banned books? Her dad borrowed them from a friend of his, who was a KGB Major who performed book confiscations.
    – Wildcard
    23 hours ago











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2 Answers
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active

oldest

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2 Answers
2






active

oldest

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active

oldest

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active

oldest

votes









12














I found the answer:




It’s thought that Stalin’s obsession with photo doctoring constituted a mini industry in the USSR. Publishers were contacted by Stalin’s minions and told to eliminate the enemy du jour from upcoming photos—and they did. According to art historian Peter King, who uncovered thousands of doctored photos and their original versions, the work was not performed in one location or even through an official ministry.




from How Photos Became a Weapon in Stalin’s Great Purge.






share|improve this answer










New contributor




anon is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.














  • 2




    Are you the same anon as the questioner?
    – LarsTech
    yesterday






  • 1




    @LarsTech no as the 2 a ons have different gravitas and different reputation.
    – Mark
    yesterday










  • @Mark It was sarcasm for a person with two accounts. Might not be, just seems...odd. Same name. Accounts created at the same time. One question. One answer.
    – LarsTech
    yesterday










  • @LarsTech anon is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
    – ThePassenger
    20 hours ago
















12














I found the answer:




It’s thought that Stalin’s obsession with photo doctoring constituted a mini industry in the USSR. Publishers were contacted by Stalin’s minions and told to eliminate the enemy du jour from upcoming photos—and they did. According to art historian Peter King, who uncovered thousands of doctored photos and their original versions, the work was not performed in one location or even through an official ministry.




from How Photos Became a Weapon in Stalin’s Great Purge.






share|improve this answer










New contributor




anon is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.














  • 2




    Are you the same anon as the questioner?
    – LarsTech
    yesterday






  • 1




    @LarsTech no as the 2 a ons have different gravitas and different reputation.
    – Mark
    yesterday










  • @Mark It was sarcasm for a person with two accounts. Might not be, just seems...odd. Same name. Accounts created at the same time. One question. One answer.
    – LarsTech
    yesterday










  • @LarsTech anon is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
    – ThePassenger
    20 hours ago














12












12








12






I found the answer:




It’s thought that Stalin’s obsession with photo doctoring constituted a mini industry in the USSR. Publishers were contacted by Stalin’s minions and told to eliminate the enemy du jour from upcoming photos—and they did. According to art historian Peter King, who uncovered thousands of doctored photos and their original versions, the work was not performed in one location or even through an official ministry.




from How Photos Became a Weapon in Stalin’s Great Purge.






share|improve this answer










New contributor




anon is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









I found the answer:




It’s thought that Stalin’s obsession with photo doctoring constituted a mini industry in the USSR. Publishers were contacted by Stalin’s minions and told to eliminate the enemy du jour from upcoming photos—and they did. According to art historian Peter King, who uncovered thousands of doctored photos and their original versions, the work was not performed in one location or even through an official ministry.




from How Photos Became a Weapon in Stalin’s Great Purge.







share|improve this answer










New contributor




anon is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited yesterday









Laurel

2788




2788






New contributor




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answered 2 days ago









anonanon

1212




1212




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New contributor





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anon is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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  • 2




    Are you the same anon as the questioner?
    – LarsTech
    yesterday






  • 1




    @LarsTech no as the 2 a ons have different gravitas and different reputation.
    – Mark
    yesterday










  • @Mark It was sarcasm for a person with two accounts. Might not be, just seems...odd. Same name. Accounts created at the same time. One question. One answer.
    – LarsTech
    yesterday










  • @LarsTech anon is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
    – ThePassenger
    20 hours ago














  • 2




    Are you the same anon as the questioner?
    – LarsTech
    yesterday






  • 1




    @LarsTech no as the 2 a ons have different gravitas and different reputation.
    – Mark
    yesterday










  • @Mark It was sarcasm for a person with two accounts. Might not be, just seems...odd. Same name. Accounts created at the same time. One question. One answer.
    – LarsTech
    yesterday










  • @LarsTech anon is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
    – ThePassenger
    20 hours ago








2




2




Are you the same anon as the questioner?
– LarsTech
yesterday




Are you the same anon as the questioner?
– LarsTech
yesterday




1




1




@LarsTech no as the 2 a ons have different gravitas and different reputation.
– Mark
yesterday




@LarsTech no as the 2 a ons have different gravitas and different reputation.
– Mark
yesterday












@Mark It was sarcasm for a person with two accounts. Might not be, just seems...odd. Same name. Accounts created at the same time. One question. One answer.
– LarsTech
yesterday




@Mark It was sarcasm for a person with two accounts. Might not be, just seems...odd. Same name. Accounts created at the same time. One question. One answer.
– LarsTech
yesterday












@LarsTech anon is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
– ThePassenger
20 hours ago




@LarsTech anon is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
– ThePassenger
20 hours ago











7














Originals of these doctored photographs of course survived. In most cases the photograph was published shortly after it was made. At a later time it was doctored and published again.
Then every effort was made to remove the original version from public circulation.
Let me mention that access to OLD newspapers was always restricted in Soviet times.
They were kept in some libraries in closed storages. To access this closed storage in scientific libraries for research purposes one had to obtain special permission.
Most public libraries did not keep old newspapers.



Moreover, books were removed from the libraries. My father was a director of a large scientific library in 1930s. He told me that EVERY WEEK special people came with the lists of books to be removed.



It was not illegal for a private person to collect books or newspapers. However, if some undesirable item was found in your possession, you would have to answer unpleasant questions, and most people tried to avoid this.



Anyway, all these old photographs could be eventually found in special storages and private collections.



Most of these doctored photographs included Lenin or Stalin with people who later became undesirable. After Stalin’s death this practice continued. For example when Beria was suddenly dismissed and killed, they had just printed the volume of Great Soviet Encyclopedia which contained a long article "Beria". All copies of this volume had to be urgently replaced. The new version had a VERY long
article about the Bering Strait, specially written to occupy the needed number of pages:-) Of course all photographs of Beria suddenly disappeared.
Same happened (on a smaller scale) with Khrushchev's portraits when he was dismissed.



Extraordinary efforts were made since June 1941 to remove all photographs of Molotov/Stalin together with Ribbentrop. But of course many survived as you can see on Internet. (And Ribbentrop paid with his life in the Nuremberg trial for these photographs).






share|improve this answer























  • Regarding collecting books or newspapers—my wife grew up in Soviet Russia. As a child she read several illegal books, including a text on meditation and "Animal Farm" by George Orwell. How did she get these banned books? Her dad borrowed them from a friend of his, who was a KGB Major who performed book confiscations.
    – Wildcard
    23 hours ago
















7














Originals of these doctored photographs of course survived. In most cases the photograph was published shortly after it was made. At a later time it was doctored and published again.
Then every effort was made to remove the original version from public circulation.
Let me mention that access to OLD newspapers was always restricted in Soviet times.
They were kept in some libraries in closed storages. To access this closed storage in scientific libraries for research purposes one had to obtain special permission.
Most public libraries did not keep old newspapers.



Moreover, books were removed from the libraries. My father was a director of a large scientific library in 1930s. He told me that EVERY WEEK special people came with the lists of books to be removed.



It was not illegal for a private person to collect books or newspapers. However, if some undesirable item was found in your possession, you would have to answer unpleasant questions, and most people tried to avoid this.



Anyway, all these old photographs could be eventually found in special storages and private collections.



Most of these doctored photographs included Lenin or Stalin with people who later became undesirable. After Stalin’s death this practice continued. For example when Beria was suddenly dismissed and killed, they had just printed the volume of Great Soviet Encyclopedia which contained a long article "Beria". All copies of this volume had to be urgently replaced. The new version had a VERY long
article about the Bering Strait, specially written to occupy the needed number of pages:-) Of course all photographs of Beria suddenly disappeared.
Same happened (on a smaller scale) with Khrushchev's portraits when he was dismissed.



Extraordinary efforts were made since June 1941 to remove all photographs of Molotov/Stalin together with Ribbentrop. But of course many survived as you can see on Internet. (And Ribbentrop paid with his life in the Nuremberg trial for these photographs).






share|improve this answer























  • Regarding collecting books or newspapers—my wife grew up in Soviet Russia. As a child she read several illegal books, including a text on meditation and "Animal Farm" by George Orwell. How did she get these banned books? Her dad borrowed them from a friend of his, who was a KGB Major who performed book confiscations.
    – Wildcard
    23 hours ago














7












7








7






Originals of these doctored photographs of course survived. In most cases the photograph was published shortly after it was made. At a later time it was doctored and published again.
Then every effort was made to remove the original version from public circulation.
Let me mention that access to OLD newspapers was always restricted in Soviet times.
They were kept in some libraries in closed storages. To access this closed storage in scientific libraries for research purposes one had to obtain special permission.
Most public libraries did not keep old newspapers.



Moreover, books were removed from the libraries. My father was a director of a large scientific library in 1930s. He told me that EVERY WEEK special people came with the lists of books to be removed.



It was not illegal for a private person to collect books or newspapers. However, if some undesirable item was found in your possession, you would have to answer unpleasant questions, and most people tried to avoid this.



Anyway, all these old photographs could be eventually found in special storages and private collections.



Most of these doctored photographs included Lenin or Stalin with people who later became undesirable. After Stalin’s death this practice continued. For example when Beria was suddenly dismissed and killed, they had just printed the volume of Great Soviet Encyclopedia which contained a long article "Beria". All copies of this volume had to be urgently replaced. The new version had a VERY long
article about the Bering Strait, specially written to occupy the needed number of pages:-) Of course all photographs of Beria suddenly disappeared.
Same happened (on a smaller scale) with Khrushchev's portraits when he was dismissed.



Extraordinary efforts were made since June 1941 to remove all photographs of Molotov/Stalin together with Ribbentrop. But of course many survived as you can see on Internet. (And Ribbentrop paid with his life in the Nuremberg trial for these photographs).






share|improve this answer














Originals of these doctored photographs of course survived. In most cases the photograph was published shortly after it was made. At a later time it was doctored and published again.
Then every effort was made to remove the original version from public circulation.
Let me mention that access to OLD newspapers was always restricted in Soviet times.
They were kept in some libraries in closed storages. To access this closed storage in scientific libraries for research purposes one had to obtain special permission.
Most public libraries did not keep old newspapers.



Moreover, books were removed from the libraries. My father was a director of a large scientific library in 1930s. He told me that EVERY WEEK special people came with the lists of books to be removed.



It was not illegal for a private person to collect books or newspapers. However, if some undesirable item was found in your possession, you would have to answer unpleasant questions, and most people tried to avoid this.



Anyway, all these old photographs could be eventually found in special storages and private collections.



Most of these doctored photographs included Lenin or Stalin with people who later became undesirable. After Stalin’s death this practice continued. For example when Beria was suddenly dismissed and killed, they had just printed the volume of Great Soviet Encyclopedia which contained a long article "Beria". All copies of this volume had to be urgently replaced. The new version had a VERY long
article about the Bering Strait, specially written to occupy the needed number of pages:-) Of course all photographs of Beria suddenly disappeared.
Same happened (on a smaller scale) with Khrushchev's portraits when he was dismissed.



Extraordinary efforts were made since June 1941 to remove all photographs of Molotov/Stalin together with Ribbentrop. But of course many survived as you can see on Internet. (And Ribbentrop paid with his life in the Nuremberg trial for these photographs).







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited 21 hours ago









sds

19.8k154110




19.8k154110










answered yesterday









AlexAlex

26.6k151101




26.6k151101












  • Regarding collecting books or newspapers—my wife grew up in Soviet Russia. As a child she read several illegal books, including a text on meditation and "Animal Farm" by George Orwell. How did she get these banned books? Her dad borrowed them from a friend of his, who was a KGB Major who performed book confiscations.
    – Wildcard
    23 hours ago


















  • Regarding collecting books or newspapers—my wife grew up in Soviet Russia. As a child she read several illegal books, including a text on meditation and "Animal Farm" by George Orwell. How did she get these banned books? Her dad borrowed them from a friend of his, who was a KGB Major who performed book confiscations.
    – Wildcard
    23 hours ago
















Regarding collecting books or newspapers—my wife grew up in Soviet Russia. As a child she read several illegal books, including a text on meditation and "Animal Farm" by George Orwell. How did she get these banned books? Her dad borrowed them from a friend of his, who was a KGB Major who performed book confiscations.
– Wildcard
23 hours ago




Regarding collecting books or newspapers—my wife grew up in Soviet Russia. As a child she read several illegal books, including a text on meditation and "Animal Farm" by George Orwell. How did she get these banned books? Her dad borrowed them from a friend of his, who was a KGB Major who performed book confiscations.
– Wildcard
23 hours ago










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