how is the following curve not simple curve? [on hold]
if we start from just above point and go up and end at just below point how is the curve not simple curve. ncert class 6 chapter 4 pg 72 says it is not http://ncert.nic.in/textbook/textbook.htm?femh1=4-14 please help
I am a student and trying to understand things it is a 8 like figure this question is not off topic as it is a maths question. don't gang up on me pls. I am not up at your level also I cant understand your big terms I don't understand why people reporting me I also need help .pls no teacher is answering me properly .Pls help .
geometry curves
New contributor
put on hold as off-topic by José Carlos Santos, Saad, Shailesh, Did, Moishe Cohen 3 hours ago
This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:
- "This question is missing context or other details: Please provide additional context, which ideally explains why the question is relevant to you and our community. Some forms of context include: background and motivation, relevant definitions, source, possible strategies, your current progress, why the question is interesting or important, etc." – Saad, Shailesh, Did, Moishe Cohen
If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.
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if we start from just above point and go up and end at just below point how is the curve not simple curve. ncert class 6 chapter 4 pg 72 says it is not http://ncert.nic.in/textbook/textbook.htm?femh1=4-14 please help
I am a student and trying to understand things it is a 8 like figure this question is not off topic as it is a maths question. don't gang up on me pls. I am not up at your level also I cant understand your big terms I don't understand why people reporting me I also need help .pls no teacher is answering me properly .Pls help .
geometry curves
New contributor
put on hold as off-topic by José Carlos Santos, Saad, Shailesh, Did, Moishe Cohen 3 hours ago
This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:
- "This question is missing context or other details: Please provide additional context, which ideally explains why the question is relevant to you and our community. Some forms of context include: background and motivation, relevant definitions, source, possible strategies, your current progress, why the question is interesting or important, etc." – Saad, Shailesh, Did, Moishe Cohen
If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.
What does "just above" mean?
– Hagen von Eitzen
9 hours ago
I don't understand what your picture is trying to say ... How is the squiggly loop defined?
– Matti P.
9 hours ago
Is your curve something like $gammacolon(0,2pi)toBbb R^2$, $tmapsto(sin t,sin 2t)$?
– Hagen von Eitzen
9 hours ago
a point just above that middle point on the curve .
– Anirudh Gulati
8 hours ago
I am school kid learning geometry it basic 8 like shape this is the first chapter where they teach about curves
– Anirudh Gulati
8 hours ago
|
show 3 more comments
if we start from just above point and go up and end at just below point how is the curve not simple curve. ncert class 6 chapter 4 pg 72 says it is not http://ncert.nic.in/textbook/textbook.htm?femh1=4-14 please help
I am a student and trying to understand things it is a 8 like figure this question is not off topic as it is a maths question. don't gang up on me pls. I am not up at your level also I cant understand your big terms I don't understand why people reporting me I also need help .pls no teacher is answering me properly .Pls help .
geometry curves
New contributor
if we start from just above point and go up and end at just below point how is the curve not simple curve. ncert class 6 chapter 4 pg 72 says it is not http://ncert.nic.in/textbook/textbook.htm?femh1=4-14 please help
I am a student and trying to understand things it is a 8 like figure this question is not off topic as it is a maths question. don't gang up on me pls. I am not up at your level also I cant understand your big terms I don't understand why people reporting me I also need help .pls no teacher is answering me properly .Pls help .
geometry curves
geometry curves
New contributor
New contributor
edited 2 hours ago
New contributor
asked 9 hours ago
Anirudh Gulati
11
11
New contributor
New contributor
put on hold as off-topic by José Carlos Santos, Saad, Shailesh, Did, Moishe Cohen 3 hours ago
This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:
- "This question is missing context or other details: Please provide additional context, which ideally explains why the question is relevant to you and our community. Some forms of context include: background and motivation, relevant definitions, source, possible strategies, your current progress, why the question is interesting or important, etc." – Saad, Shailesh, Did, Moishe Cohen
If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.
put on hold as off-topic by José Carlos Santos, Saad, Shailesh, Did, Moishe Cohen 3 hours ago
This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:
- "This question is missing context or other details: Please provide additional context, which ideally explains why the question is relevant to you and our community. Some forms of context include: background and motivation, relevant definitions, source, possible strategies, your current progress, why the question is interesting or important, etc." – Saad, Shailesh, Did, Moishe Cohen
If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.
What does "just above" mean?
– Hagen von Eitzen
9 hours ago
I don't understand what your picture is trying to say ... How is the squiggly loop defined?
– Matti P.
9 hours ago
Is your curve something like $gammacolon(0,2pi)toBbb R^2$, $tmapsto(sin t,sin 2t)$?
– Hagen von Eitzen
9 hours ago
a point just above that middle point on the curve .
– Anirudh Gulati
8 hours ago
I am school kid learning geometry it basic 8 like shape this is the first chapter where they teach about curves
– Anirudh Gulati
8 hours ago
|
show 3 more comments
What does "just above" mean?
– Hagen von Eitzen
9 hours ago
I don't understand what your picture is trying to say ... How is the squiggly loop defined?
– Matti P.
9 hours ago
Is your curve something like $gammacolon(0,2pi)toBbb R^2$, $tmapsto(sin t,sin 2t)$?
– Hagen von Eitzen
9 hours ago
a point just above that middle point on the curve .
– Anirudh Gulati
8 hours ago
I am school kid learning geometry it basic 8 like shape this is the first chapter where they teach about curves
– Anirudh Gulati
8 hours ago
What does "just above" mean?
– Hagen von Eitzen
9 hours ago
What does "just above" mean?
– Hagen von Eitzen
9 hours ago
I don't understand what your picture is trying to say ... How is the squiggly loop defined?
– Matti P.
9 hours ago
I don't understand what your picture is trying to say ... How is the squiggly loop defined?
– Matti P.
9 hours ago
Is your curve something like $gammacolon(0,2pi)toBbb R^2$, $tmapsto(sin t,sin 2t)$?
– Hagen von Eitzen
9 hours ago
Is your curve something like $gammacolon(0,2pi)toBbb R^2$, $tmapsto(sin t,sin 2t)$?
– Hagen von Eitzen
9 hours ago
a point just above that middle point on the curve .
– Anirudh Gulati
8 hours ago
a point just above that middle point on the curve .
– Anirudh Gulati
8 hours ago
I am school kid learning geometry it basic 8 like shape this is the first chapter where they teach about curves
– Anirudh Gulati
8 hours ago
I am school kid learning geometry it basic 8 like shape this is the first chapter where they teach about curves
– Anirudh Gulati
8 hours ago
|
show 3 more comments
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
Consider this:
The blue curve on the right is a simple closed curve, also called a Jordan curve.
The red curve on the left is a closed curve, but is is not simple, because it intersects (crosses) itself. It does not matter where it crosses itself.
You can think of it this way: When you draw the curve, and you need to cross or overlap the already drawn part of the curve (except at the very end or start), it cannot be a simple curve. The only place where a closed simple curve overlaps, is at the starting and ending point.
If you make the mistake of starting drawing the curve exactly where it starts, the above thought model is a bit broken. You do not get to cheat that way; such curves are still not simple. Consider the above way of thinking about it only valid, if you start the curve at a point that is not close to an intersection.
You can draw it as large as you need, with as sharp pen or pencil as you need, to check if some parts are just very close, or really intersect/cross/overlap. Only a real intersection/crossing/overlapping matters: you can think of having a very, very sharp pen/pencil and a huge area to draw on.
A simple curve does not need to be closed, it can be open as well. (Simple open curves are also called Jordan arcs.) Such curves do not cross themselves, nor do they end where they staryed. For example, $alpha$ is not a simple curve, because it crosses itself; but $nu$ is simple.
Furthermore, $rho$ is not a simple curve, because it starts (or ends, depending on which way you draw it) at the middle of itself; it does cross/intersect itself.
The proper mathematical term for when a curve crosses itself is "self-intersecting". Thus, every curve is either "simple" or "self-intersecting".
Note that a closed curve must start and end at exactly the same point. It is not enough for the curve to look closed. For example,
is indeed an open simple curve. However, you cannot close it but keep it simple it by moving the endpoints closer to the vertical part. No matter how close you put the endpoints, the two points will be separate (distinct), unless you cross the vertical part. If you cross the vertical part, the curve is no longer simple.
you did not read what I wrote or I am mistaken if the definition says it should be plane curve on which a point object can move without need to move on already moved on points then it is a simple curve then why the curve is not a simple curve I don't understand, the definition cannot be wrong there is something missing or I am dumb
– Anirudh Gulati
3 hours ago
@AnirudhGulati: I read what you wrote, and looked at your image. (It looks like you have an URL inside the text of your question; I did not look there, and will not look there.) The "curve on which a point object can move [along the curve] without need to move on already moved on points" definition is exactly the same as "the curve does not intersect itself".
– Nominal Animal
2 hours ago
@AnirudhGulati: When you move along the figure eight curve, you can only move "forward" and "back", since the curve has no "thickness". When you do the first loop, and come to the intersection, you cannot "squeeze by" or "slip between the points", because every point along the curve is already "taken". So, no crossing.
– Nominal Animal
2 hours ago
I didn't started at intersection I started at point just above intersection AND ON THE CURVE. that's the thing I want to ask .there is nothing about squeezing I said
– Anirudh Gulati
1 hour ago
same way I ended at just below point
– Anirudh Gulati
1 hour ago
|
show 7 more comments
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
Consider this:
The blue curve on the right is a simple closed curve, also called a Jordan curve.
The red curve on the left is a closed curve, but is is not simple, because it intersects (crosses) itself. It does not matter where it crosses itself.
You can think of it this way: When you draw the curve, and you need to cross or overlap the already drawn part of the curve (except at the very end or start), it cannot be a simple curve. The only place where a closed simple curve overlaps, is at the starting and ending point.
If you make the mistake of starting drawing the curve exactly where it starts, the above thought model is a bit broken. You do not get to cheat that way; such curves are still not simple. Consider the above way of thinking about it only valid, if you start the curve at a point that is not close to an intersection.
You can draw it as large as you need, with as sharp pen or pencil as you need, to check if some parts are just very close, or really intersect/cross/overlap. Only a real intersection/crossing/overlapping matters: you can think of having a very, very sharp pen/pencil and a huge area to draw on.
A simple curve does not need to be closed, it can be open as well. (Simple open curves are also called Jordan arcs.) Such curves do not cross themselves, nor do they end where they staryed. For example, $alpha$ is not a simple curve, because it crosses itself; but $nu$ is simple.
Furthermore, $rho$ is not a simple curve, because it starts (or ends, depending on which way you draw it) at the middle of itself; it does cross/intersect itself.
The proper mathematical term for when a curve crosses itself is "self-intersecting". Thus, every curve is either "simple" or "self-intersecting".
Note that a closed curve must start and end at exactly the same point. It is not enough for the curve to look closed. For example,
is indeed an open simple curve. However, you cannot close it but keep it simple it by moving the endpoints closer to the vertical part. No matter how close you put the endpoints, the two points will be separate (distinct), unless you cross the vertical part. If you cross the vertical part, the curve is no longer simple.
you did not read what I wrote or I am mistaken if the definition says it should be plane curve on which a point object can move without need to move on already moved on points then it is a simple curve then why the curve is not a simple curve I don't understand, the definition cannot be wrong there is something missing or I am dumb
– Anirudh Gulati
3 hours ago
@AnirudhGulati: I read what you wrote, and looked at your image. (It looks like you have an URL inside the text of your question; I did not look there, and will not look there.) The "curve on which a point object can move [along the curve] without need to move on already moved on points" definition is exactly the same as "the curve does not intersect itself".
– Nominal Animal
2 hours ago
@AnirudhGulati: When you move along the figure eight curve, you can only move "forward" and "back", since the curve has no "thickness". When you do the first loop, and come to the intersection, you cannot "squeeze by" or "slip between the points", because every point along the curve is already "taken". So, no crossing.
– Nominal Animal
2 hours ago
I didn't started at intersection I started at point just above intersection AND ON THE CURVE. that's the thing I want to ask .there is nothing about squeezing I said
– Anirudh Gulati
1 hour ago
same way I ended at just below point
– Anirudh Gulati
1 hour ago
|
show 7 more comments
Consider this:
The blue curve on the right is a simple closed curve, also called a Jordan curve.
The red curve on the left is a closed curve, but is is not simple, because it intersects (crosses) itself. It does not matter where it crosses itself.
You can think of it this way: When you draw the curve, and you need to cross or overlap the already drawn part of the curve (except at the very end or start), it cannot be a simple curve. The only place where a closed simple curve overlaps, is at the starting and ending point.
If you make the mistake of starting drawing the curve exactly where it starts, the above thought model is a bit broken. You do not get to cheat that way; such curves are still not simple. Consider the above way of thinking about it only valid, if you start the curve at a point that is not close to an intersection.
You can draw it as large as you need, with as sharp pen or pencil as you need, to check if some parts are just very close, or really intersect/cross/overlap. Only a real intersection/crossing/overlapping matters: you can think of having a very, very sharp pen/pencil and a huge area to draw on.
A simple curve does not need to be closed, it can be open as well. (Simple open curves are also called Jordan arcs.) Such curves do not cross themselves, nor do they end where they staryed. For example, $alpha$ is not a simple curve, because it crosses itself; but $nu$ is simple.
Furthermore, $rho$ is not a simple curve, because it starts (or ends, depending on which way you draw it) at the middle of itself; it does cross/intersect itself.
The proper mathematical term for when a curve crosses itself is "self-intersecting". Thus, every curve is either "simple" or "self-intersecting".
Note that a closed curve must start and end at exactly the same point. It is not enough for the curve to look closed. For example,
is indeed an open simple curve. However, you cannot close it but keep it simple it by moving the endpoints closer to the vertical part. No matter how close you put the endpoints, the two points will be separate (distinct), unless you cross the vertical part. If you cross the vertical part, the curve is no longer simple.
you did not read what I wrote or I am mistaken if the definition says it should be plane curve on which a point object can move without need to move on already moved on points then it is a simple curve then why the curve is not a simple curve I don't understand, the definition cannot be wrong there is something missing or I am dumb
– Anirudh Gulati
3 hours ago
@AnirudhGulati: I read what you wrote, and looked at your image. (It looks like you have an URL inside the text of your question; I did not look there, and will not look there.) The "curve on which a point object can move [along the curve] without need to move on already moved on points" definition is exactly the same as "the curve does not intersect itself".
– Nominal Animal
2 hours ago
@AnirudhGulati: When you move along the figure eight curve, you can only move "forward" and "back", since the curve has no "thickness". When you do the first loop, and come to the intersection, you cannot "squeeze by" or "slip between the points", because every point along the curve is already "taken". So, no crossing.
– Nominal Animal
2 hours ago
I didn't started at intersection I started at point just above intersection AND ON THE CURVE. that's the thing I want to ask .there is nothing about squeezing I said
– Anirudh Gulati
1 hour ago
same way I ended at just below point
– Anirudh Gulati
1 hour ago
|
show 7 more comments
Consider this:
The blue curve on the right is a simple closed curve, also called a Jordan curve.
The red curve on the left is a closed curve, but is is not simple, because it intersects (crosses) itself. It does not matter where it crosses itself.
You can think of it this way: When you draw the curve, and you need to cross or overlap the already drawn part of the curve (except at the very end or start), it cannot be a simple curve. The only place where a closed simple curve overlaps, is at the starting and ending point.
If you make the mistake of starting drawing the curve exactly where it starts, the above thought model is a bit broken. You do not get to cheat that way; such curves are still not simple. Consider the above way of thinking about it only valid, if you start the curve at a point that is not close to an intersection.
You can draw it as large as you need, with as sharp pen or pencil as you need, to check if some parts are just very close, or really intersect/cross/overlap. Only a real intersection/crossing/overlapping matters: you can think of having a very, very sharp pen/pencil and a huge area to draw on.
A simple curve does not need to be closed, it can be open as well. (Simple open curves are also called Jordan arcs.) Such curves do not cross themselves, nor do they end where they staryed. For example, $alpha$ is not a simple curve, because it crosses itself; but $nu$ is simple.
Furthermore, $rho$ is not a simple curve, because it starts (or ends, depending on which way you draw it) at the middle of itself; it does cross/intersect itself.
The proper mathematical term for when a curve crosses itself is "self-intersecting". Thus, every curve is either "simple" or "self-intersecting".
Note that a closed curve must start and end at exactly the same point. It is not enough for the curve to look closed. For example,
is indeed an open simple curve. However, you cannot close it but keep it simple it by moving the endpoints closer to the vertical part. No matter how close you put the endpoints, the two points will be separate (distinct), unless you cross the vertical part. If you cross the vertical part, the curve is no longer simple.
Consider this:
The blue curve on the right is a simple closed curve, also called a Jordan curve.
The red curve on the left is a closed curve, but is is not simple, because it intersects (crosses) itself. It does not matter where it crosses itself.
You can think of it this way: When you draw the curve, and you need to cross or overlap the already drawn part of the curve (except at the very end or start), it cannot be a simple curve. The only place where a closed simple curve overlaps, is at the starting and ending point.
If you make the mistake of starting drawing the curve exactly where it starts, the above thought model is a bit broken. You do not get to cheat that way; such curves are still not simple. Consider the above way of thinking about it only valid, if you start the curve at a point that is not close to an intersection.
You can draw it as large as you need, with as sharp pen or pencil as you need, to check if some parts are just very close, or really intersect/cross/overlap. Only a real intersection/crossing/overlapping matters: you can think of having a very, very sharp pen/pencil and a huge area to draw on.
A simple curve does not need to be closed, it can be open as well. (Simple open curves are also called Jordan arcs.) Such curves do not cross themselves, nor do they end where they staryed. For example, $alpha$ is not a simple curve, because it crosses itself; but $nu$ is simple.
Furthermore, $rho$ is not a simple curve, because it starts (or ends, depending on which way you draw it) at the middle of itself; it does cross/intersect itself.
The proper mathematical term for when a curve crosses itself is "self-intersecting". Thus, every curve is either "simple" or "self-intersecting".
Note that a closed curve must start and end at exactly the same point. It is not enough for the curve to look closed. For example,
is indeed an open simple curve. However, you cannot close it but keep it simple it by moving the endpoints closer to the vertical part. No matter how close you put the endpoints, the two points will be separate (distinct), unless you cross the vertical part. If you cross the vertical part, the curve is no longer simple.
edited 1 hour ago
answered 4 hours ago
Nominal Animal
6,7802517
6,7802517
you did not read what I wrote or I am mistaken if the definition says it should be plane curve on which a point object can move without need to move on already moved on points then it is a simple curve then why the curve is not a simple curve I don't understand, the definition cannot be wrong there is something missing or I am dumb
– Anirudh Gulati
3 hours ago
@AnirudhGulati: I read what you wrote, and looked at your image. (It looks like you have an URL inside the text of your question; I did not look there, and will not look there.) The "curve on which a point object can move [along the curve] without need to move on already moved on points" definition is exactly the same as "the curve does not intersect itself".
– Nominal Animal
2 hours ago
@AnirudhGulati: When you move along the figure eight curve, you can only move "forward" and "back", since the curve has no "thickness". When you do the first loop, and come to the intersection, you cannot "squeeze by" or "slip between the points", because every point along the curve is already "taken". So, no crossing.
– Nominal Animal
2 hours ago
I didn't started at intersection I started at point just above intersection AND ON THE CURVE. that's the thing I want to ask .there is nothing about squeezing I said
– Anirudh Gulati
1 hour ago
same way I ended at just below point
– Anirudh Gulati
1 hour ago
|
show 7 more comments
you did not read what I wrote or I am mistaken if the definition says it should be plane curve on which a point object can move without need to move on already moved on points then it is a simple curve then why the curve is not a simple curve I don't understand, the definition cannot be wrong there is something missing or I am dumb
– Anirudh Gulati
3 hours ago
@AnirudhGulati: I read what you wrote, and looked at your image. (It looks like you have an URL inside the text of your question; I did not look there, and will not look there.) The "curve on which a point object can move [along the curve] without need to move on already moved on points" definition is exactly the same as "the curve does not intersect itself".
– Nominal Animal
2 hours ago
@AnirudhGulati: When you move along the figure eight curve, you can only move "forward" and "back", since the curve has no "thickness". When you do the first loop, and come to the intersection, you cannot "squeeze by" or "slip between the points", because every point along the curve is already "taken". So, no crossing.
– Nominal Animal
2 hours ago
I didn't started at intersection I started at point just above intersection AND ON THE CURVE. that's the thing I want to ask .there is nothing about squeezing I said
– Anirudh Gulati
1 hour ago
same way I ended at just below point
– Anirudh Gulati
1 hour ago
you did not read what I wrote or I am mistaken if the definition says it should be plane curve on which a point object can move without need to move on already moved on points then it is a simple curve then why the curve is not a simple curve I don't understand, the definition cannot be wrong there is something missing or I am dumb
– Anirudh Gulati
3 hours ago
you did not read what I wrote or I am mistaken if the definition says it should be plane curve on which a point object can move without need to move on already moved on points then it is a simple curve then why the curve is not a simple curve I don't understand, the definition cannot be wrong there is something missing or I am dumb
– Anirudh Gulati
3 hours ago
@AnirudhGulati: I read what you wrote, and looked at your image. (It looks like you have an URL inside the text of your question; I did not look there, and will not look there.) The "curve on which a point object can move [along the curve] without need to move on already moved on points" definition is exactly the same as "the curve does not intersect itself".
– Nominal Animal
2 hours ago
@AnirudhGulati: I read what you wrote, and looked at your image. (It looks like you have an URL inside the text of your question; I did not look there, and will not look there.) The "curve on which a point object can move [along the curve] without need to move on already moved on points" definition is exactly the same as "the curve does not intersect itself".
– Nominal Animal
2 hours ago
@AnirudhGulati: When you move along the figure eight curve, you can only move "forward" and "back", since the curve has no "thickness". When you do the first loop, and come to the intersection, you cannot "squeeze by" or "slip between the points", because every point along the curve is already "taken". So, no crossing.
– Nominal Animal
2 hours ago
@AnirudhGulati: When you move along the figure eight curve, you can only move "forward" and "back", since the curve has no "thickness". When you do the first loop, and come to the intersection, you cannot "squeeze by" or "slip between the points", because every point along the curve is already "taken". So, no crossing.
– Nominal Animal
2 hours ago
I didn't started at intersection I started at point just above intersection AND ON THE CURVE. that's the thing I want to ask .there is nothing about squeezing I said
– Anirudh Gulati
1 hour ago
I didn't started at intersection I started at point just above intersection AND ON THE CURVE. that's the thing I want to ask .there is nothing about squeezing I said
– Anirudh Gulati
1 hour ago
same way I ended at just below point
– Anirudh Gulati
1 hour ago
same way I ended at just below point
– Anirudh Gulati
1 hour ago
|
show 7 more comments
What does "just above" mean?
– Hagen von Eitzen
9 hours ago
I don't understand what your picture is trying to say ... How is the squiggly loop defined?
– Matti P.
9 hours ago
Is your curve something like $gammacolon(0,2pi)toBbb R^2$, $tmapsto(sin t,sin 2t)$?
– Hagen von Eitzen
9 hours ago
a point just above that middle point on the curve .
– Anirudh Gulati
8 hours ago
I am school kid learning geometry it basic 8 like shape this is the first chapter where they teach about curves
– Anirudh Gulati
8 hours ago