How does Homeward Path work with cards that enchant to steal?












14














How does the card Homeward Path work with cards like In Bolas's Clutches? Homeward Path would imply that you still get it back, but those types of effects continue as long as the creature is enchanted, at least from a surface level inpsection of the enchantment.






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    How does the card Homeward Path work with cards like In Bolas's Clutches? Homeward Path would imply that you still get it back, but those types of effects continue as long as the creature is enchanted, at least from a surface level inpsection of the enchantment.






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      14












      14








      14







      How does the card Homeward Path work with cards like In Bolas's Clutches? Homeward Path would imply that you still get it back, but those types of effects continue as long as the creature is enchanted, at least from a surface level inpsection of the enchantment.






      magic-the-gathering







      share|improve this question















      How does the card Homeward Path work with cards like In Bolas's Clutches? Homeward Path would imply that you still get it back, but those types of effects continue as long as the creature is enchanted, at least from a surface level inpsection of the enchantment.






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      edited yesterday







      Shadow Z.

















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      Shadow Z.Shadow Z.

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          2 Answers
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          10














          Even though Homeward Path looks to have an instantaneous effect, it's actually continuous:




          611.1. A continuous effect modifies characteristics of objects, modifies control of objects, or affects players or the rules of the game, for a fixed or indefinite period.




          Since both continuous effects apply in layer 2:




          613.1b Layer 2: Control-changing effects are applied.




          you have to apply them in timestamp order:




          613.2. Within layers 1–6, apply effects from characteristic-defining abilities first (see rule 604.3), then all other effects in timestamp order (see rule 613.6). Note that dependency may alter the order in which effects are applied within a layer. (See rule 613.7.)




          If Homeward Path is activated after In Bolas's Clutches is cast, the owner will get the creature back:




          613.6. Within a layer or sublayer, determining which order effects are applied in is usually done using a timestamp system. An effect with an earlier timestamp is applied before an effect with a later timestamp.




          (quotes are from the Comprehensive Rules)






          share|improve this answer



















          • 2




            aren't all control change effects continuous? They would have to be to change an objects characteristics?
            – Malco
            2 days ago






          • 1




            @Malco I think that's the key, but the Rules do not explicitly state one-shot effects can't change characteristics (just that continuous effects do so).
            – Glorfindel
            2 days ago






          • 1




            @Glorfindel Yes, until now I always thought that "you control target creature" was a continuous effect, while "gain control of target creature" was a one-shot effect.
            – GendoIkari
            2 days ago






          • 1




            I just now realized you were two different people.... RE: "611.1. A continuous effect modifies characteristics of objects, modifies control of objects, or affects players or the rules of the game, for a fixed or indefinite period." is defining what a CE is, ie anything that mods charateristics/control of obj is a CE
            – Malco
            2 days ago






          • 1




            Well ... almost. It's logically equivalent to "a cow has four legs and eats grass", which defines some properties of a cow. But a sheep is not a cow, and still has four legs and eats grass.
            – Glorfindel
            2 days ago



















          2














          Seems that the creature's owner would regain control of the creature, even though In Bolas's Clutches stays in play:



          https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-rulings/magic-rulings-archives/292336-homeward-path-mind-control



          Both create continuous effects, the most recent effect is the one that's active.






          share|improve this answer





















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            2 Answers
            2






            active

            oldest

            votes








            2 Answers
            2






            active

            oldest

            votes









            active

            oldest

            votes






            active

            oldest

            votes









            10














            Even though Homeward Path looks to have an instantaneous effect, it's actually continuous:




            611.1. A continuous effect modifies characteristics of objects, modifies control of objects, or affects players or the rules of the game, for a fixed or indefinite period.




            Since both continuous effects apply in layer 2:




            613.1b Layer 2: Control-changing effects are applied.




            you have to apply them in timestamp order:




            613.2. Within layers 1–6, apply effects from characteristic-defining abilities first (see rule 604.3), then all other effects in timestamp order (see rule 613.6). Note that dependency may alter the order in which effects are applied within a layer. (See rule 613.7.)




            If Homeward Path is activated after In Bolas's Clutches is cast, the owner will get the creature back:




            613.6. Within a layer or sublayer, determining which order effects are applied in is usually done using a timestamp system. An effect with an earlier timestamp is applied before an effect with a later timestamp.




            (quotes are from the Comprehensive Rules)






            share|improve this answer



















            • 2




              aren't all control change effects continuous? They would have to be to change an objects characteristics?
              – Malco
              2 days ago






            • 1




              @Malco I think that's the key, but the Rules do not explicitly state one-shot effects can't change characteristics (just that continuous effects do so).
              – Glorfindel
              2 days ago






            • 1




              @Glorfindel Yes, until now I always thought that "you control target creature" was a continuous effect, while "gain control of target creature" was a one-shot effect.
              – GendoIkari
              2 days ago






            • 1




              I just now realized you were two different people.... RE: "611.1. A continuous effect modifies characteristics of objects, modifies control of objects, or affects players or the rules of the game, for a fixed or indefinite period." is defining what a CE is, ie anything that mods charateristics/control of obj is a CE
              – Malco
              2 days ago






            • 1




              Well ... almost. It's logically equivalent to "a cow has four legs and eats grass", which defines some properties of a cow. But a sheep is not a cow, and still has four legs and eats grass.
              – Glorfindel
              2 days ago
















            10














            Even though Homeward Path looks to have an instantaneous effect, it's actually continuous:




            611.1. A continuous effect modifies characteristics of objects, modifies control of objects, or affects players or the rules of the game, for a fixed or indefinite period.




            Since both continuous effects apply in layer 2:




            613.1b Layer 2: Control-changing effects are applied.




            you have to apply them in timestamp order:




            613.2. Within layers 1–6, apply effects from characteristic-defining abilities first (see rule 604.3), then all other effects in timestamp order (see rule 613.6). Note that dependency may alter the order in which effects are applied within a layer. (See rule 613.7.)




            If Homeward Path is activated after In Bolas's Clutches is cast, the owner will get the creature back:




            613.6. Within a layer or sublayer, determining which order effects are applied in is usually done using a timestamp system. An effect with an earlier timestamp is applied before an effect with a later timestamp.




            (quotes are from the Comprehensive Rules)






            share|improve this answer



















            • 2




              aren't all control change effects continuous? They would have to be to change an objects characteristics?
              – Malco
              2 days ago






            • 1




              @Malco I think that's the key, but the Rules do not explicitly state one-shot effects can't change characteristics (just that continuous effects do so).
              – Glorfindel
              2 days ago






            • 1




              @Glorfindel Yes, until now I always thought that "you control target creature" was a continuous effect, while "gain control of target creature" was a one-shot effect.
              – GendoIkari
              2 days ago






            • 1




              I just now realized you were two different people.... RE: "611.1. A continuous effect modifies characteristics of objects, modifies control of objects, or affects players or the rules of the game, for a fixed or indefinite period." is defining what a CE is, ie anything that mods charateristics/control of obj is a CE
              – Malco
              2 days ago






            • 1




              Well ... almost. It's logically equivalent to "a cow has four legs and eats grass", which defines some properties of a cow. But a sheep is not a cow, and still has four legs and eats grass.
              – Glorfindel
              2 days ago














            10












            10








            10






            Even though Homeward Path looks to have an instantaneous effect, it's actually continuous:




            611.1. A continuous effect modifies characteristics of objects, modifies control of objects, or affects players or the rules of the game, for a fixed or indefinite period.




            Since both continuous effects apply in layer 2:




            613.1b Layer 2: Control-changing effects are applied.




            you have to apply them in timestamp order:




            613.2. Within layers 1–6, apply effects from characteristic-defining abilities first (see rule 604.3), then all other effects in timestamp order (see rule 613.6). Note that dependency may alter the order in which effects are applied within a layer. (See rule 613.7.)




            If Homeward Path is activated after In Bolas's Clutches is cast, the owner will get the creature back:




            613.6. Within a layer or sublayer, determining which order effects are applied in is usually done using a timestamp system. An effect with an earlier timestamp is applied before an effect with a later timestamp.




            (quotes are from the Comprehensive Rules)






            share|improve this answer














            Even though Homeward Path looks to have an instantaneous effect, it's actually continuous:




            611.1. A continuous effect modifies characteristics of objects, modifies control of objects, or affects players or the rules of the game, for a fixed or indefinite period.




            Since both continuous effects apply in layer 2:




            613.1b Layer 2: Control-changing effects are applied.




            you have to apply them in timestamp order:




            613.2. Within layers 1–6, apply effects from characteristic-defining abilities first (see rule 604.3), then all other effects in timestamp order (see rule 613.6). Note that dependency may alter the order in which effects are applied within a layer. (See rule 613.7.)




            If Homeward Path is activated after In Bolas's Clutches is cast, the owner will get the creature back:




            613.6. Within a layer or sublayer, determining which order effects are applied in is usually done using a timestamp system. An effect with an earlier timestamp is applied before an effect with a later timestamp.




            (quotes are from the Comprehensive Rules)







            share|improve this answer














            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer








            edited 2 days ago

























            answered 2 days ago









            GlorfindelGlorfindel

            2,5261828




            2,5261828








            • 2




              aren't all control change effects continuous? They would have to be to change an objects characteristics?
              – Malco
              2 days ago






            • 1




              @Malco I think that's the key, but the Rules do not explicitly state one-shot effects can't change characteristics (just that continuous effects do so).
              – Glorfindel
              2 days ago






            • 1




              @Glorfindel Yes, until now I always thought that "you control target creature" was a continuous effect, while "gain control of target creature" was a one-shot effect.
              – GendoIkari
              2 days ago






            • 1




              I just now realized you were two different people.... RE: "611.1. A continuous effect modifies characteristics of objects, modifies control of objects, or affects players or the rules of the game, for a fixed or indefinite period." is defining what a CE is, ie anything that mods charateristics/control of obj is a CE
              – Malco
              2 days ago






            • 1




              Well ... almost. It's logically equivalent to "a cow has four legs and eats grass", which defines some properties of a cow. But a sheep is not a cow, and still has four legs and eats grass.
              – Glorfindel
              2 days ago














            • 2




              aren't all control change effects continuous? They would have to be to change an objects characteristics?
              – Malco
              2 days ago






            • 1




              @Malco I think that's the key, but the Rules do not explicitly state one-shot effects can't change characteristics (just that continuous effects do so).
              – Glorfindel
              2 days ago






            • 1




              @Glorfindel Yes, until now I always thought that "you control target creature" was a continuous effect, while "gain control of target creature" was a one-shot effect.
              – GendoIkari
              2 days ago






            • 1




              I just now realized you were two different people.... RE: "611.1. A continuous effect modifies characteristics of objects, modifies control of objects, or affects players or the rules of the game, for a fixed or indefinite period." is defining what a CE is, ie anything that mods charateristics/control of obj is a CE
              – Malco
              2 days ago






            • 1




              Well ... almost. It's logically equivalent to "a cow has four legs and eats grass", which defines some properties of a cow. But a sheep is not a cow, and still has four legs and eats grass.
              – Glorfindel
              2 days ago








            2




            2




            aren't all control change effects continuous? They would have to be to change an objects characteristics?
            – Malco
            2 days ago




            aren't all control change effects continuous? They would have to be to change an objects characteristics?
            – Malco
            2 days ago




            1




            1




            @Malco I think that's the key, but the Rules do not explicitly state one-shot effects can't change characteristics (just that continuous effects do so).
            – Glorfindel
            2 days ago




            @Malco I think that's the key, but the Rules do not explicitly state one-shot effects can't change characteristics (just that continuous effects do so).
            – Glorfindel
            2 days ago




            1




            1




            @Glorfindel Yes, until now I always thought that "you control target creature" was a continuous effect, while "gain control of target creature" was a one-shot effect.
            – GendoIkari
            2 days ago




            @Glorfindel Yes, until now I always thought that "you control target creature" was a continuous effect, while "gain control of target creature" was a one-shot effect.
            – GendoIkari
            2 days ago




            1




            1




            I just now realized you were two different people.... RE: "611.1. A continuous effect modifies characteristics of objects, modifies control of objects, or affects players or the rules of the game, for a fixed or indefinite period." is defining what a CE is, ie anything that mods charateristics/control of obj is a CE
            – Malco
            2 days ago




            I just now realized you were two different people.... RE: "611.1. A continuous effect modifies characteristics of objects, modifies control of objects, or affects players or the rules of the game, for a fixed or indefinite period." is defining what a CE is, ie anything that mods charateristics/control of obj is a CE
            – Malco
            2 days ago




            1




            1




            Well ... almost. It's logically equivalent to "a cow has four legs and eats grass", which defines some properties of a cow. But a sheep is not a cow, and still has four legs and eats grass.
            – Glorfindel
            2 days ago




            Well ... almost. It's logically equivalent to "a cow has four legs and eats grass", which defines some properties of a cow. But a sheep is not a cow, and still has four legs and eats grass.
            – Glorfindel
            2 days ago











            2














            Seems that the creature's owner would regain control of the creature, even though In Bolas's Clutches stays in play:



            https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-rulings/magic-rulings-archives/292336-homeward-path-mind-control



            Both create continuous effects, the most recent effect is the one that's active.






            share|improve this answer


























              2














              Seems that the creature's owner would regain control of the creature, even though In Bolas's Clutches stays in play:



              https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-rulings/magic-rulings-archives/292336-homeward-path-mind-control



              Both create continuous effects, the most recent effect is the one that's active.






              share|improve this answer
























                2












                2








                2






                Seems that the creature's owner would regain control of the creature, even though In Bolas's Clutches stays in play:



                https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-rulings/magic-rulings-archives/292336-homeward-path-mind-control



                Both create continuous effects, the most recent effect is the one that's active.






                share|improve this answer












                Seems that the creature's owner would regain control of the creature, even though In Bolas's Clutches stays in play:



                https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-rulings/magic-rulings-archives/292336-homeward-path-mind-control



                Both create continuous effects, the most recent effect is the one that's active.







                share|improve this answer












                share|improve this answer



                share|improve this answer










                answered 2 days ago









                RajRaj

                686




                686






























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