$f(x)$ is continuous at $x=alpha$ ,$g(x)$ is discontinuous at $x=a$ but $g(f(x))$ is continuous at $x=alpha$












2














Suppose $f,g:mathbb{R} rightarrow mathbb{R}$ are such that $f(x)$ is continuous at $x=alpha$ and $f(alpha)=a$ and $g(x)$ is discontinuous at $x=a$, but $gbig(f(x)big)$ is continuous at $x=alpha$. Also, $f(x),g(x)$ are non-constant functions. Then, can it be said that $x=alpha$ is an extremum of $f$ and $x=a$ is an extremum of $g$?



I have tried to construct examples of functions, but never could figure out a rigorous proof
For example take the function $f(x)=x^2$ which is continuous at $0$, $g(x)=[x]$ which is discontinuous at $0$, but $gbig(f(x)big)$ is continuous at $0$.










share|cite|improve this question
























  • I don't understand your example. Is $[x]$ denoting floor function? Not sure because this doesn't have an extremum in $0$, does it?
    – Matteo
    2 days ago






  • 1




    Yes it can be said that x = a is an extremum of g whether or not it is true. In your example, 0 is not an extremum of g.
    – William Elliot
    2 days ago










  • As you can see from my answer below, in general the statement in OP is false. Considering further my counterexamples, I came to think that maybe something can be said about $f$ (not $g$), provided that left and right limit of $g(x)$ in $a$ exist (unlike in my last two examples).
    – Matteo
    yesterday
















2














Suppose $f,g:mathbb{R} rightarrow mathbb{R}$ are such that $f(x)$ is continuous at $x=alpha$ and $f(alpha)=a$ and $g(x)$ is discontinuous at $x=a$, but $gbig(f(x)big)$ is continuous at $x=alpha$. Also, $f(x),g(x)$ are non-constant functions. Then, can it be said that $x=alpha$ is an extremum of $f$ and $x=a$ is an extremum of $g$?



I have tried to construct examples of functions, but never could figure out a rigorous proof
For example take the function $f(x)=x^2$ which is continuous at $0$, $g(x)=[x]$ which is discontinuous at $0$, but $gbig(f(x)big)$ is continuous at $0$.










share|cite|improve this question
























  • I don't understand your example. Is $[x]$ denoting floor function? Not sure because this doesn't have an extremum in $0$, does it?
    – Matteo
    2 days ago






  • 1




    Yes it can be said that x = a is an extremum of g whether or not it is true. In your example, 0 is not an extremum of g.
    – William Elliot
    2 days ago










  • As you can see from my answer below, in general the statement in OP is false. Considering further my counterexamples, I came to think that maybe something can be said about $f$ (not $g$), provided that left and right limit of $g(x)$ in $a$ exist (unlike in my last two examples).
    – Matteo
    yesterday














2












2








2


2





Suppose $f,g:mathbb{R} rightarrow mathbb{R}$ are such that $f(x)$ is continuous at $x=alpha$ and $f(alpha)=a$ and $g(x)$ is discontinuous at $x=a$, but $gbig(f(x)big)$ is continuous at $x=alpha$. Also, $f(x),g(x)$ are non-constant functions. Then, can it be said that $x=alpha$ is an extremum of $f$ and $x=a$ is an extremum of $g$?



I have tried to construct examples of functions, but never could figure out a rigorous proof
For example take the function $f(x)=x^2$ which is continuous at $0$, $g(x)=[x]$ which is discontinuous at $0$, but $gbig(f(x)big)$ is continuous at $0$.










share|cite|improve this question















Suppose $f,g:mathbb{R} rightarrow mathbb{R}$ are such that $f(x)$ is continuous at $x=alpha$ and $f(alpha)=a$ and $g(x)$ is discontinuous at $x=a$, but $gbig(f(x)big)$ is continuous at $x=alpha$. Also, $f(x),g(x)$ are non-constant functions. Then, can it be said that $x=alpha$ is an extremum of $f$ and $x=a$ is an extremum of $g$?



I have tried to construct examples of functions, but never could figure out a rigorous proof
For example take the function $f(x)=x^2$ which is continuous at $0$, $g(x)=[x]$ which is discontinuous at $0$, but $gbig(f(x)big)$ is continuous at $0$.







real-analysis calculus analysis continuity function-and-relation-composition






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edited yesterday









Batominovski

33.9k33292




33.9k33292










asked Jan 1 at 16:34









Legend Killer

1,579523




1,579523












  • I don't understand your example. Is $[x]$ denoting floor function? Not sure because this doesn't have an extremum in $0$, does it?
    – Matteo
    2 days ago






  • 1




    Yes it can be said that x = a is an extremum of g whether or not it is true. In your example, 0 is not an extremum of g.
    – William Elliot
    2 days ago










  • As you can see from my answer below, in general the statement in OP is false. Considering further my counterexamples, I came to think that maybe something can be said about $f$ (not $g$), provided that left and right limit of $g(x)$ in $a$ exist (unlike in my last two examples).
    – Matteo
    yesterday


















  • I don't understand your example. Is $[x]$ denoting floor function? Not sure because this doesn't have an extremum in $0$, does it?
    – Matteo
    2 days ago






  • 1




    Yes it can be said that x = a is an extremum of g whether or not it is true. In your example, 0 is not an extremum of g.
    – William Elliot
    2 days ago










  • As you can see from my answer below, in general the statement in OP is false. Considering further my counterexamples, I came to think that maybe something can be said about $f$ (not $g$), provided that left and right limit of $g(x)$ in $a$ exist (unlike in my last two examples).
    – Matteo
    yesterday
















I don't understand your example. Is $[x]$ denoting floor function? Not sure because this doesn't have an extremum in $0$, does it?
– Matteo
2 days ago




I don't understand your example. Is $[x]$ denoting floor function? Not sure because this doesn't have an extremum in $0$, does it?
– Matteo
2 days ago




1




1




Yes it can be said that x = a is an extremum of g whether or not it is true. In your example, 0 is not an extremum of g.
– William Elliot
2 days ago




Yes it can be said that x = a is an extremum of g whether or not it is true. In your example, 0 is not an extremum of g.
– William Elliot
2 days ago












As you can see from my answer below, in general the statement in OP is false. Considering further my counterexamples, I came to think that maybe something can be said about $f$ (not $g$), provided that left and right limit of $g(x)$ in $a$ exist (unlike in my last two examples).
– Matteo
yesterday




As you can see from my answer below, in general the statement in OP is false. Considering further my counterexamples, I came to think that maybe something can be said about $f$ (not $g$), provided that left and right limit of $g(x)$ in $a$ exist (unlike in my last two examples).
– Matteo
yesterday










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

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3














Here are some counterexamples, using the terminology of OP, i.e. $f$ continuous in $alpha$, $g$ not continuous in $a=f(alpha)$ and $g circ f$ continuous in $alpha$, always with $alpha = 0$ and $a = 0$.



In this example $alpha$ is an extremum for $f$ but $a$ is not an extremum for $g$:
begin{eqnarray}
f(x) &=& x^2\
g(x) &=& begin{cases}
x+1 & (x geq 0)\
x-1 & (x < 0).
end{cases}
end{eqnarray}



In the following example $alpha$ is not an extremum for $f$, but $a$ is an extremum for $g$:
begin{eqnarray}
f(x) &=& begin{cases}
x & (x mbox{rational})\
0 & (x mbox{irrational})
end{cases}
\
g(x) &=& begin{cases}
1 & (x mbox{rational})\
0 & (x mbox{irrational}).
end{cases}
end{eqnarray}



Finally an example where neither $alpha$ nor $a$ are extrema of $f$ and $g$ respectively:
begin{eqnarray}
f(x) &=& begin{cases}
x & (x mbox{rational})\
0 & (x mbox{irrational})
end{cases}
\
g(x) &=& begin{cases}
1 & (x mbox{rational})\
x & (x mbox{irrational}).
end{cases}
end{eqnarray}

Concering the last two examples, note that $f(mathbb R) subseteq mathbb Q$, so that $g circ f$ is constant.






share|cite|improve this answer































    2














    Here is a possible variation of OP. I don't think it is of much interest, and worked it out just to do a little practice myself. But you might want to have a look and see if it works.



    Consider two functions $f,g:mathbb R rightarrow mathbb R$, such that $f$ is continuous in $alpha$ and not constant in any neighborhood of $alpha$. Let then $f(alpha) = a$ and suppose furthermore that
    begin{equation}
    lim_{xrightarrow a^+} g(x) = ell_+ tag{1}label{piu}
    end{equation}

    and
    begin{equation}
    lim_{xrightarrow a^-} g(x) = ell_- tag{2}label{meno}
    end{equation}

    exist and they are different, so that $g(x)$ is not continuous in $a$. If $(gcirc f)(x)=g(f(x))$ is continuous in $a$, then $alpha$ is an extremum of $f$.



    Proof. Suppose that $alpha$ is not an extremum of $f$. Since $f$ is not constant in any neighboorhood of $alpha$, then in the neighborhood
    begin{equation}
    I_{2n} = left(alpha-frac{1}{2n}, alpha+frac{1}{2n}right), nin mathbb Z^+
    end{equation}

    there must be a value $alpha_{2n-1}$ for which $f(alpha_{2n-1})< a$ and a value $alpha_{2n}$ for which $f(alpha_{2n})> a$.



    The sequence $(alpha_n)$ converges to $alpha$. Thus, by continuity of $f$, $(f(alpha_n))$ converges to $f(alpha) = a$. However, the sequence $(g(f(alpha_n)))$ does not converge, since the subsequence $(g(f(alpha_{2n}))$ converges to $ell_+$, by eqref{piu}, and the subsequence $(g(f(alpha_{2n-1}))$ converges to $ell_-$, by eqref{meno}. This contradicts continuity of $gcirc f$ in $a$.






    share|cite|improve this answer























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      2 Answers
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      2 Answers
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      active

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      active

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      active

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      3














      Here are some counterexamples, using the terminology of OP, i.e. $f$ continuous in $alpha$, $g$ not continuous in $a=f(alpha)$ and $g circ f$ continuous in $alpha$, always with $alpha = 0$ and $a = 0$.



      In this example $alpha$ is an extremum for $f$ but $a$ is not an extremum for $g$:
      begin{eqnarray}
      f(x) &=& x^2\
      g(x) &=& begin{cases}
      x+1 & (x geq 0)\
      x-1 & (x < 0).
      end{cases}
      end{eqnarray}



      In the following example $alpha$ is not an extremum for $f$, but $a$ is an extremum for $g$:
      begin{eqnarray}
      f(x) &=& begin{cases}
      x & (x mbox{rational})\
      0 & (x mbox{irrational})
      end{cases}
      \
      g(x) &=& begin{cases}
      1 & (x mbox{rational})\
      0 & (x mbox{irrational}).
      end{cases}
      end{eqnarray}



      Finally an example where neither $alpha$ nor $a$ are extrema of $f$ and $g$ respectively:
      begin{eqnarray}
      f(x) &=& begin{cases}
      x & (x mbox{rational})\
      0 & (x mbox{irrational})
      end{cases}
      \
      g(x) &=& begin{cases}
      1 & (x mbox{rational})\
      x & (x mbox{irrational}).
      end{cases}
      end{eqnarray}

      Concering the last two examples, note that $f(mathbb R) subseteq mathbb Q$, so that $g circ f$ is constant.






      share|cite|improve this answer




























        3














        Here are some counterexamples, using the terminology of OP, i.e. $f$ continuous in $alpha$, $g$ not continuous in $a=f(alpha)$ and $g circ f$ continuous in $alpha$, always with $alpha = 0$ and $a = 0$.



        In this example $alpha$ is an extremum for $f$ but $a$ is not an extremum for $g$:
        begin{eqnarray}
        f(x) &=& x^2\
        g(x) &=& begin{cases}
        x+1 & (x geq 0)\
        x-1 & (x < 0).
        end{cases}
        end{eqnarray}



        In the following example $alpha$ is not an extremum for $f$, but $a$ is an extremum for $g$:
        begin{eqnarray}
        f(x) &=& begin{cases}
        x & (x mbox{rational})\
        0 & (x mbox{irrational})
        end{cases}
        \
        g(x) &=& begin{cases}
        1 & (x mbox{rational})\
        0 & (x mbox{irrational}).
        end{cases}
        end{eqnarray}



        Finally an example where neither $alpha$ nor $a$ are extrema of $f$ and $g$ respectively:
        begin{eqnarray}
        f(x) &=& begin{cases}
        x & (x mbox{rational})\
        0 & (x mbox{irrational})
        end{cases}
        \
        g(x) &=& begin{cases}
        1 & (x mbox{rational})\
        x & (x mbox{irrational}).
        end{cases}
        end{eqnarray}

        Concering the last two examples, note that $f(mathbb R) subseteq mathbb Q$, so that $g circ f$ is constant.






        share|cite|improve this answer


























          3












          3








          3






          Here are some counterexamples, using the terminology of OP, i.e. $f$ continuous in $alpha$, $g$ not continuous in $a=f(alpha)$ and $g circ f$ continuous in $alpha$, always with $alpha = 0$ and $a = 0$.



          In this example $alpha$ is an extremum for $f$ but $a$ is not an extremum for $g$:
          begin{eqnarray}
          f(x) &=& x^2\
          g(x) &=& begin{cases}
          x+1 & (x geq 0)\
          x-1 & (x < 0).
          end{cases}
          end{eqnarray}



          In the following example $alpha$ is not an extremum for $f$, but $a$ is an extremum for $g$:
          begin{eqnarray}
          f(x) &=& begin{cases}
          x & (x mbox{rational})\
          0 & (x mbox{irrational})
          end{cases}
          \
          g(x) &=& begin{cases}
          1 & (x mbox{rational})\
          0 & (x mbox{irrational}).
          end{cases}
          end{eqnarray}



          Finally an example where neither $alpha$ nor $a$ are extrema of $f$ and $g$ respectively:
          begin{eqnarray}
          f(x) &=& begin{cases}
          x & (x mbox{rational})\
          0 & (x mbox{irrational})
          end{cases}
          \
          g(x) &=& begin{cases}
          1 & (x mbox{rational})\
          x & (x mbox{irrational}).
          end{cases}
          end{eqnarray}

          Concering the last two examples, note that $f(mathbb R) subseteq mathbb Q$, so that $g circ f$ is constant.






          share|cite|improve this answer














          Here are some counterexamples, using the terminology of OP, i.e. $f$ continuous in $alpha$, $g$ not continuous in $a=f(alpha)$ and $g circ f$ continuous in $alpha$, always with $alpha = 0$ and $a = 0$.



          In this example $alpha$ is an extremum for $f$ but $a$ is not an extremum for $g$:
          begin{eqnarray}
          f(x) &=& x^2\
          g(x) &=& begin{cases}
          x+1 & (x geq 0)\
          x-1 & (x < 0).
          end{cases}
          end{eqnarray}



          In the following example $alpha$ is not an extremum for $f$, but $a$ is an extremum for $g$:
          begin{eqnarray}
          f(x) &=& begin{cases}
          x & (x mbox{rational})\
          0 & (x mbox{irrational})
          end{cases}
          \
          g(x) &=& begin{cases}
          1 & (x mbox{rational})\
          0 & (x mbox{irrational}).
          end{cases}
          end{eqnarray}



          Finally an example where neither $alpha$ nor $a$ are extrema of $f$ and $g$ respectively:
          begin{eqnarray}
          f(x) &=& begin{cases}
          x & (x mbox{rational})\
          0 & (x mbox{irrational})
          end{cases}
          \
          g(x) &=& begin{cases}
          1 & (x mbox{rational})\
          x & (x mbox{irrational}).
          end{cases}
          end{eqnarray}

          Concering the last two examples, note that $f(mathbb R) subseteq mathbb Q$, so that $g circ f$ is constant.







          share|cite|improve this answer














          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer








          edited yesterday

























          answered yesterday









          Matteo

          24227




          24227























              2














              Here is a possible variation of OP. I don't think it is of much interest, and worked it out just to do a little practice myself. But you might want to have a look and see if it works.



              Consider two functions $f,g:mathbb R rightarrow mathbb R$, such that $f$ is continuous in $alpha$ and not constant in any neighborhood of $alpha$. Let then $f(alpha) = a$ and suppose furthermore that
              begin{equation}
              lim_{xrightarrow a^+} g(x) = ell_+ tag{1}label{piu}
              end{equation}

              and
              begin{equation}
              lim_{xrightarrow a^-} g(x) = ell_- tag{2}label{meno}
              end{equation}

              exist and they are different, so that $g(x)$ is not continuous in $a$. If $(gcirc f)(x)=g(f(x))$ is continuous in $a$, then $alpha$ is an extremum of $f$.



              Proof. Suppose that $alpha$ is not an extremum of $f$. Since $f$ is not constant in any neighboorhood of $alpha$, then in the neighborhood
              begin{equation}
              I_{2n} = left(alpha-frac{1}{2n}, alpha+frac{1}{2n}right), nin mathbb Z^+
              end{equation}

              there must be a value $alpha_{2n-1}$ for which $f(alpha_{2n-1})< a$ and a value $alpha_{2n}$ for which $f(alpha_{2n})> a$.



              The sequence $(alpha_n)$ converges to $alpha$. Thus, by continuity of $f$, $(f(alpha_n))$ converges to $f(alpha) = a$. However, the sequence $(g(f(alpha_n)))$ does not converge, since the subsequence $(g(f(alpha_{2n}))$ converges to $ell_+$, by eqref{piu}, and the subsequence $(g(f(alpha_{2n-1}))$ converges to $ell_-$, by eqref{meno}. This contradicts continuity of $gcirc f$ in $a$.






              share|cite|improve this answer




























                2














                Here is a possible variation of OP. I don't think it is of much interest, and worked it out just to do a little practice myself. But you might want to have a look and see if it works.



                Consider two functions $f,g:mathbb R rightarrow mathbb R$, such that $f$ is continuous in $alpha$ and not constant in any neighborhood of $alpha$. Let then $f(alpha) = a$ and suppose furthermore that
                begin{equation}
                lim_{xrightarrow a^+} g(x) = ell_+ tag{1}label{piu}
                end{equation}

                and
                begin{equation}
                lim_{xrightarrow a^-} g(x) = ell_- tag{2}label{meno}
                end{equation}

                exist and they are different, so that $g(x)$ is not continuous in $a$. If $(gcirc f)(x)=g(f(x))$ is continuous in $a$, then $alpha$ is an extremum of $f$.



                Proof. Suppose that $alpha$ is not an extremum of $f$. Since $f$ is not constant in any neighboorhood of $alpha$, then in the neighborhood
                begin{equation}
                I_{2n} = left(alpha-frac{1}{2n}, alpha+frac{1}{2n}right), nin mathbb Z^+
                end{equation}

                there must be a value $alpha_{2n-1}$ for which $f(alpha_{2n-1})< a$ and a value $alpha_{2n}$ for which $f(alpha_{2n})> a$.



                The sequence $(alpha_n)$ converges to $alpha$. Thus, by continuity of $f$, $(f(alpha_n))$ converges to $f(alpha) = a$. However, the sequence $(g(f(alpha_n)))$ does not converge, since the subsequence $(g(f(alpha_{2n}))$ converges to $ell_+$, by eqref{piu}, and the subsequence $(g(f(alpha_{2n-1}))$ converges to $ell_-$, by eqref{meno}. This contradicts continuity of $gcirc f$ in $a$.






                share|cite|improve this answer


























                  2












                  2








                  2






                  Here is a possible variation of OP. I don't think it is of much interest, and worked it out just to do a little practice myself. But you might want to have a look and see if it works.



                  Consider two functions $f,g:mathbb R rightarrow mathbb R$, such that $f$ is continuous in $alpha$ and not constant in any neighborhood of $alpha$. Let then $f(alpha) = a$ and suppose furthermore that
                  begin{equation}
                  lim_{xrightarrow a^+} g(x) = ell_+ tag{1}label{piu}
                  end{equation}

                  and
                  begin{equation}
                  lim_{xrightarrow a^-} g(x) = ell_- tag{2}label{meno}
                  end{equation}

                  exist and they are different, so that $g(x)$ is not continuous in $a$. If $(gcirc f)(x)=g(f(x))$ is continuous in $a$, then $alpha$ is an extremum of $f$.



                  Proof. Suppose that $alpha$ is not an extremum of $f$. Since $f$ is not constant in any neighboorhood of $alpha$, then in the neighborhood
                  begin{equation}
                  I_{2n} = left(alpha-frac{1}{2n}, alpha+frac{1}{2n}right), nin mathbb Z^+
                  end{equation}

                  there must be a value $alpha_{2n-1}$ for which $f(alpha_{2n-1})< a$ and a value $alpha_{2n}$ for which $f(alpha_{2n})> a$.



                  The sequence $(alpha_n)$ converges to $alpha$. Thus, by continuity of $f$, $(f(alpha_n))$ converges to $f(alpha) = a$. However, the sequence $(g(f(alpha_n)))$ does not converge, since the subsequence $(g(f(alpha_{2n}))$ converges to $ell_+$, by eqref{piu}, and the subsequence $(g(f(alpha_{2n-1}))$ converges to $ell_-$, by eqref{meno}. This contradicts continuity of $gcirc f$ in $a$.






                  share|cite|improve this answer














                  Here is a possible variation of OP. I don't think it is of much interest, and worked it out just to do a little practice myself. But you might want to have a look and see if it works.



                  Consider two functions $f,g:mathbb R rightarrow mathbb R$, such that $f$ is continuous in $alpha$ and not constant in any neighborhood of $alpha$. Let then $f(alpha) = a$ and suppose furthermore that
                  begin{equation}
                  lim_{xrightarrow a^+} g(x) = ell_+ tag{1}label{piu}
                  end{equation}

                  and
                  begin{equation}
                  lim_{xrightarrow a^-} g(x) = ell_- tag{2}label{meno}
                  end{equation}

                  exist and they are different, so that $g(x)$ is not continuous in $a$. If $(gcirc f)(x)=g(f(x))$ is continuous in $a$, then $alpha$ is an extremum of $f$.



                  Proof. Suppose that $alpha$ is not an extremum of $f$. Since $f$ is not constant in any neighboorhood of $alpha$, then in the neighborhood
                  begin{equation}
                  I_{2n} = left(alpha-frac{1}{2n}, alpha+frac{1}{2n}right), nin mathbb Z^+
                  end{equation}

                  there must be a value $alpha_{2n-1}$ for which $f(alpha_{2n-1})< a$ and a value $alpha_{2n}$ for which $f(alpha_{2n})> a$.



                  The sequence $(alpha_n)$ converges to $alpha$. Thus, by continuity of $f$, $(f(alpha_n))$ converges to $f(alpha) = a$. However, the sequence $(g(f(alpha_n)))$ does not converge, since the subsequence $(g(f(alpha_{2n}))$ converges to $ell_+$, by eqref{piu}, and the subsequence $(g(f(alpha_{2n-1}))$ converges to $ell_-$, by eqref{meno}. This contradicts continuity of $gcirc f$ in $a$.







                  share|cite|improve this answer














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