Meaning of “for while knowledge”
We will not [says Socrates] then allow our charges, whom we
expect to prove good men, being men, to play the parts of
women and imitate a woman young or old wrangling with
her husband, defying heaven, loudly boasting, fortunate in
her own conceit, or involved in misfortune and possessed by
grief and lamentation – still less a woman that is sick, in
love, or in labor . . . Nor may they imitate slaves, female and
male, doing the offices of slaves . . . Nor yet, as it seems, bad
men who are cowards and who do the opposite of the things
we just now spoke of [things done by men who are “brave,
sober, pious, free”], reviling and lampooning one another,
speaking foul words in their cups or when sober and in other
ways sinning against themselves and others in word and
deed after the fashion of such men. And I take it they must
not form the habit of likening themselves to madmen either
in words nor yet in deeds. For while knowledge they must
have both of mad and bad men and women, they must do
and imitate nothing of this kind . . . Are they to imitate smiths
and other craftsmen or the rowers of triremes and those
who call the time to them or other things connected
therewith?
I haven't got any idea about the meaning of "for while knowledge" this structure is new for me.
This passage is from the book named: On literature.
phrase-meaning sentence-meaning
add a comment |
We will not [says Socrates] then allow our charges, whom we
expect to prove good men, being men, to play the parts of
women and imitate a woman young or old wrangling with
her husband, defying heaven, loudly boasting, fortunate in
her own conceit, or involved in misfortune and possessed by
grief and lamentation – still less a woman that is sick, in
love, or in labor . . . Nor may they imitate slaves, female and
male, doing the offices of slaves . . . Nor yet, as it seems, bad
men who are cowards and who do the opposite of the things
we just now spoke of [things done by men who are “brave,
sober, pious, free”], reviling and lampooning one another,
speaking foul words in their cups or when sober and in other
ways sinning against themselves and others in word and
deed after the fashion of such men. And I take it they must
not form the habit of likening themselves to madmen either
in words nor yet in deeds. For while knowledge they must
have both of mad and bad men and women, they must do
and imitate nothing of this kind . . . Are they to imitate smiths
and other craftsmen or the rowers of triremes and those
who call the time to them or other things connected
therewith?
I haven't got any idea about the meaning of "for while knowledge" this structure is new for me.
This passage is from the book named: On literature.
phrase-meaning sentence-meaning
It's like "yoda speak". "knowledge they have" just means "they have knowledge". "Begun have these Clone Wars!" Just means "The Clone Wars have begun."
– Fattie
23 hours ago
add a comment |
We will not [says Socrates] then allow our charges, whom we
expect to prove good men, being men, to play the parts of
women and imitate a woman young or old wrangling with
her husband, defying heaven, loudly boasting, fortunate in
her own conceit, or involved in misfortune and possessed by
grief and lamentation – still less a woman that is sick, in
love, or in labor . . . Nor may they imitate slaves, female and
male, doing the offices of slaves . . . Nor yet, as it seems, bad
men who are cowards and who do the opposite of the things
we just now spoke of [things done by men who are “brave,
sober, pious, free”], reviling and lampooning one another,
speaking foul words in their cups or when sober and in other
ways sinning against themselves and others in word and
deed after the fashion of such men. And I take it they must
not form the habit of likening themselves to madmen either
in words nor yet in deeds. For while knowledge they must
have both of mad and bad men and women, they must do
and imitate nothing of this kind . . . Are they to imitate smiths
and other craftsmen or the rowers of triremes and those
who call the time to them or other things connected
therewith?
I haven't got any idea about the meaning of "for while knowledge" this structure is new for me.
This passage is from the book named: On literature.
phrase-meaning sentence-meaning
We will not [says Socrates] then allow our charges, whom we
expect to prove good men, being men, to play the parts of
women and imitate a woman young or old wrangling with
her husband, defying heaven, loudly boasting, fortunate in
her own conceit, or involved in misfortune and possessed by
grief and lamentation – still less a woman that is sick, in
love, or in labor . . . Nor may they imitate slaves, female and
male, doing the offices of slaves . . . Nor yet, as it seems, bad
men who are cowards and who do the opposite of the things
we just now spoke of [things done by men who are “brave,
sober, pious, free”], reviling and lampooning one another,
speaking foul words in their cups or when sober and in other
ways sinning against themselves and others in word and
deed after the fashion of such men. And I take it they must
not form the habit of likening themselves to madmen either
in words nor yet in deeds. For while knowledge they must
have both of mad and bad men and women, they must do
and imitate nothing of this kind . . . Are they to imitate smiths
and other craftsmen or the rowers of triremes and those
who call the time to them or other things connected
therewith?
I haven't got any idea about the meaning of "for while knowledge" this structure is new for me.
This passage is from the book named: On literature.
phrase-meaning sentence-meaning
phrase-meaning sentence-meaning
asked yesterday
Viser Hashemi
3509
3509
It's like "yoda speak". "knowledge they have" just means "they have knowledge". "Begun have these Clone Wars!" Just means "The Clone Wars have begun."
– Fattie
23 hours ago
add a comment |
It's like "yoda speak". "knowledge they have" just means "they have knowledge". "Begun have these Clone Wars!" Just means "The Clone Wars have begun."
– Fattie
23 hours ago
It's like "yoda speak". "knowledge they have" just means "they have knowledge". "Begun have these Clone Wars!" Just means "The Clone Wars have begun."
– Fattie
23 hours ago
It's like "yoda speak". "knowledge they have" just means "they have knowledge". "Begun have these Clone Wars!" Just means "The Clone Wars have begun."
– Fattie
23 hours ago
add a comment |
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
For while knowledge they must have both of mad and bad men and women, they must do and imitate nothing of this kind...
...is (clumsy, imho1) resequencing and circumlocutory phrasing of the more easily understood...
For while they must have knowledge of both mad and bad men and women, they must not do or imitate anything like this...
Here "for while" could be replaced more casually with "because even though".
1 In all fairness, I should point out that it's a translation (from almost a century ago), which may even reflect the original ancient Greek construction. But I wouldn't expect any "modern" translation to include such roundabout phrasing.
As regards the "introductory" element For while - the first point to make is that this is an entirely optional component. Within which while can be understood as meaning although...
Although they must do this, they must not do that
...equivalent to...
They must do this, but they must not do that
As a general rule of thumb I think the second version is to be preferred - to me at least, it seems easier to parse (but this is a very fine point of style).
And the initial word For is really just another somewhat outdated "stylistic flourish" (but in principle it could be understood as meaning because - referring to and explaining the preceding sentence). If you look at older versions of the Bible, for example, you'll find quite a lot of sentences that start with For for no obvious reason. It doesn't really "mean" anything at all.
Happy New Year, my friend!
– Mark Hubbard
yesterday
Likewise, me old mucker! :)
– FumbleFingers
yesterday
Lots of Thanks. But I don't get the meaning of " for while"
– Viser Hashemi
yesterday
is it better to write: for, while they must have...
– Viser Hashemi
yesterday
@ViserHashemi - yes, you're correct. The passage you quoted sounds stupid. Your phrasing is correct.
– Fattie
23 hours ago
|
show 3 more comments
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1 Answer
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1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
For while knowledge they must have both of mad and bad men and women, they must do and imitate nothing of this kind...
...is (clumsy, imho1) resequencing and circumlocutory phrasing of the more easily understood...
For while they must have knowledge of both mad and bad men and women, they must not do or imitate anything like this...
Here "for while" could be replaced more casually with "because even though".
1 In all fairness, I should point out that it's a translation (from almost a century ago), which may even reflect the original ancient Greek construction. But I wouldn't expect any "modern" translation to include such roundabout phrasing.
As regards the "introductory" element For while - the first point to make is that this is an entirely optional component. Within which while can be understood as meaning although...
Although they must do this, they must not do that
...equivalent to...
They must do this, but they must not do that
As a general rule of thumb I think the second version is to be preferred - to me at least, it seems easier to parse (but this is a very fine point of style).
And the initial word For is really just another somewhat outdated "stylistic flourish" (but in principle it could be understood as meaning because - referring to and explaining the preceding sentence). If you look at older versions of the Bible, for example, you'll find quite a lot of sentences that start with For for no obvious reason. It doesn't really "mean" anything at all.
Happy New Year, my friend!
– Mark Hubbard
yesterday
Likewise, me old mucker! :)
– FumbleFingers
yesterday
Lots of Thanks. But I don't get the meaning of " for while"
– Viser Hashemi
yesterday
is it better to write: for, while they must have...
– Viser Hashemi
yesterday
@ViserHashemi - yes, you're correct. The passage you quoted sounds stupid. Your phrasing is correct.
– Fattie
23 hours ago
|
show 3 more comments
For while knowledge they must have both of mad and bad men and women, they must do and imitate nothing of this kind...
...is (clumsy, imho1) resequencing and circumlocutory phrasing of the more easily understood...
For while they must have knowledge of both mad and bad men and women, they must not do or imitate anything like this...
Here "for while" could be replaced more casually with "because even though".
1 In all fairness, I should point out that it's a translation (from almost a century ago), which may even reflect the original ancient Greek construction. But I wouldn't expect any "modern" translation to include such roundabout phrasing.
As regards the "introductory" element For while - the first point to make is that this is an entirely optional component. Within which while can be understood as meaning although...
Although they must do this, they must not do that
...equivalent to...
They must do this, but they must not do that
As a general rule of thumb I think the second version is to be preferred - to me at least, it seems easier to parse (but this is a very fine point of style).
And the initial word For is really just another somewhat outdated "stylistic flourish" (but in principle it could be understood as meaning because - referring to and explaining the preceding sentence). If you look at older versions of the Bible, for example, you'll find quite a lot of sentences that start with For for no obvious reason. It doesn't really "mean" anything at all.
Happy New Year, my friend!
– Mark Hubbard
yesterday
Likewise, me old mucker! :)
– FumbleFingers
yesterday
Lots of Thanks. But I don't get the meaning of " for while"
– Viser Hashemi
yesterday
is it better to write: for, while they must have...
– Viser Hashemi
yesterday
@ViserHashemi - yes, you're correct. The passage you quoted sounds stupid. Your phrasing is correct.
– Fattie
23 hours ago
|
show 3 more comments
For while knowledge they must have both of mad and bad men and women, they must do and imitate nothing of this kind...
...is (clumsy, imho1) resequencing and circumlocutory phrasing of the more easily understood...
For while they must have knowledge of both mad and bad men and women, they must not do or imitate anything like this...
Here "for while" could be replaced more casually with "because even though".
1 In all fairness, I should point out that it's a translation (from almost a century ago), which may even reflect the original ancient Greek construction. But I wouldn't expect any "modern" translation to include such roundabout phrasing.
As regards the "introductory" element For while - the first point to make is that this is an entirely optional component. Within which while can be understood as meaning although...
Although they must do this, they must not do that
...equivalent to...
They must do this, but they must not do that
As a general rule of thumb I think the second version is to be preferred - to me at least, it seems easier to parse (but this is a very fine point of style).
And the initial word For is really just another somewhat outdated "stylistic flourish" (but in principle it could be understood as meaning because - referring to and explaining the preceding sentence). If you look at older versions of the Bible, for example, you'll find quite a lot of sentences that start with For for no obvious reason. It doesn't really "mean" anything at all.
For while knowledge they must have both of mad and bad men and women, they must do and imitate nothing of this kind...
...is (clumsy, imho1) resequencing and circumlocutory phrasing of the more easily understood...
For while they must have knowledge of both mad and bad men and women, they must not do or imitate anything like this...
Here "for while" could be replaced more casually with "because even though".
1 In all fairness, I should point out that it's a translation (from almost a century ago), which may even reflect the original ancient Greek construction. But I wouldn't expect any "modern" translation to include such roundabout phrasing.
As regards the "introductory" element For while - the first point to make is that this is an entirely optional component. Within which while can be understood as meaning although...
Although they must do this, they must not do that
...equivalent to...
They must do this, but they must not do that
As a general rule of thumb I think the second version is to be preferred - to me at least, it seems easier to parse (but this is a very fine point of style).
And the initial word For is really just another somewhat outdated "stylistic flourish" (but in principle it could be understood as meaning because - referring to and explaining the preceding sentence). If you look at older versions of the Bible, for example, you'll find quite a lot of sentences that start with For for no obvious reason. It doesn't really "mean" anything at all.
edited 23 hours ago
answered yesterday
FumbleFingers
43.7k154117
43.7k154117
Happy New Year, my friend!
– Mark Hubbard
yesterday
Likewise, me old mucker! :)
– FumbleFingers
yesterday
Lots of Thanks. But I don't get the meaning of " for while"
– Viser Hashemi
yesterday
is it better to write: for, while they must have...
– Viser Hashemi
yesterday
@ViserHashemi - yes, you're correct. The passage you quoted sounds stupid. Your phrasing is correct.
– Fattie
23 hours ago
|
show 3 more comments
Happy New Year, my friend!
– Mark Hubbard
yesterday
Likewise, me old mucker! :)
– FumbleFingers
yesterday
Lots of Thanks. But I don't get the meaning of " for while"
– Viser Hashemi
yesterday
is it better to write: for, while they must have...
– Viser Hashemi
yesterday
@ViserHashemi - yes, you're correct. The passage you quoted sounds stupid. Your phrasing is correct.
– Fattie
23 hours ago
Happy New Year, my friend!
– Mark Hubbard
yesterday
Happy New Year, my friend!
– Mark Hubbard
yesterday
Likewise, me old mucker! :)
– FumbleFingers
yesterday
Likewise, me old mucker! :)
– FumbleFingers
yesterday
Lots of Thanks. But I don't get the meaning of " for while"
– Viser Hashemi
yesterday
Lots of Thanks. But I don't get the meaning of " for while"
– Viser Hashemi
yesterday
is it better to write: for, while they must have...
– Viser Hashemi
yesterday
is it better to write: for, while they must have...
– Viser Hashemi
yesterday
@ViserHashemi - yes, you're correct. The passage you quoted sounds stupid. Your phrasing is correct.
– Fattie
23 hours ago
@ViserHashemi - yes, you're correct. The passage you quoted sounds stupid. Your phrasing is correct.
– Fattie
23 hours ago
|
show 3 more comments
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It's like "yoda speak". "knowledge they have" just means "they have knowledge". "Begun have these Clone Wars!" Just means "The Clone Wars have begun."
– Fattie
23 hours ago