Iron based life
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Lately I have been thinking about possible forms of life on planets that would have radically different experiences than here on Earth. I was wondering if life based on transition metals was possible at all, with iron being probably the easiest to consider. I've always found the idea of metallic lifeforms very interesting even though I know there are obvious troubles that come with it.
Let's imagine this was a solar system with quite high concentrations of iron, nickel, cobalt, chromium, manganese, copper, and similar. Not so high to be implausible but high enough to be considered very metal rich by observers.
Thank you to those who answer.
science-based biology biochemistry metals life
asked 2 days ago
ShroomZedShroomZed
161
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add a comment |
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Lately I have been thinking about possible forms of life on planets that would have radically different experiences than here on Earth. I was wondering if life based on transition metals was possible at all, with iron being probably the easiest to consider. I've always found the idea of metallic lifeforms very interesting even though I know there are obvious troubles that come with it.
Let's imagine this was a solar system with quite high concentrations of iron, nickel, cobalt, chromium, manganese, copper, and similar. Not so high to be implausible but high enough to be considered very metal rich by observers.
Thank you to those who answer.
science-based biology biochemistry metals life
asked 2 days ago
ShroomZedShroomZed
161
New contributor
ShroomZed is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
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This is hardly possible, because metals (unlike non-metals) are not able to form strong Me-Me bonds in molecules. Which means that the whole biochemistry has to be non-molecular.
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– Alexander
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Humans have an iron-based biology. It's one of the reasons why our blood is red. Do you mean iron rather than carbon as the basic chemistry? Please note that, insofar as we understand chemistry, there are precious few atoms that can take the place of carbon - iron isn't one of them. Iron-hydrogen bonds are not as numerous nor as stable as carbon-hydrogen bonds.
$endgroup$
– JBH
2 days ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Lately I have been thinking about possible forms of life on planets that would have radically different experiences than here on Earth. I was wondering if life based on transition metals was possible at all, with iron being probably the easiest to consider. I've always found the idea of metallic lifeforms very interesting even though I know there are obvious troubles that come with it.
Let's imagine this was a solar system with quite high concentrations of iron, nickel, cobalt, chromium, manganese, copper, and similar. Not so high to be implausible but high enough to be considered very metal rich by observers.
Thank you to those who answer.
science-based biology biochemistry metals life
asked 2 days ago
ShroomZedShroomZed
161
New contributor
ShroomZed is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
$endgroup$
Lately I have been thinking about possible forms of life on planets that would have radically different experiences than here on Earth. I was wondering if life based on transition metals was possible at all, with iron being probably the easiest to consider. I've always found the idea of metallic lifeforms very interesting even though I know there are obvious troubles that come with it.
Let's imagine this was a solar system with quite high concentrations of iron, nickel, cobalt, chromium, manganese, copper, and similar. Not so high to be implausible but high enough to be considered very metal rich by observers.
Thank you to those who answer.
science-based biology biochemistry metals life
science-based biology biochemistry metals life
asked 2 days ago
ShroomZedShroomZed
161
New contributor
ShroomZed is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked 2 days ago
ShroomZedShroomZed
161
New contributor
ShroomZed is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
edited 2 days ago
ShroomZed
asked 2 days ago
ShroomZedShroomZed
161
New contributor
ShroomZed is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked 2 days ago
ShroomZedShroomZed
161
asked 2 days ago
ShroomZedShroomZed
161
161
New contributor
ShroomZed is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
ShroomZed is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
ShroomZed is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
$begingroup$
This is hardly possible, because metals (unlike non-metals) are not able to form strong Me-Me bonds in molecules. Which means that the whole biochemistry has to be non-molecular.
$endgroup$
– Alexander
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Humans have an iron-based biology. It's one of the reasons why our blood is red. Do you mean iron rather than carbon as the basic chemistry? Please note that, insofar as we understand chemistry, there are precious few atoms that can take the place of carbon - iron isn't one of them. Iron-hydrogen bonds are not as numerous nor as stable as carbon-hydrogen bonds.
$endgroup$
– JBH
2 days ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
This is hardly possible, because metals (unlike non-metals) are not able to form strong Me-Me bonds in molecules. Which means that the whole biochemistry has to be non-molecular.
$endgroup$
– Alexander
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Humans have an iron-based biology. It's one of the reasons why our blood is red. Do you mean iron rather than carbon as the basic chemistry? Please note that, insofar as we understand chemistry, there are precious few atoms that can take the place of carbon - iron isn't one of them. Iron-hydrogen bonds are not as numerous nor as stable as carbon-hydrogen bonds.
$endgroup$
– JBH
2 days ago
$begingroup$
This is hardly possible, because metals (unlike non-metals) are not able to form strong Me-Me bonds in molecules. Which means that the whole biochemistry has to be non-molecular.
$endgroup$
– Alexander
2 days ago
$begingroup$
This is hardly possible, because metals (unlike non-metals) are not able to form strong Me-Me bonds in molecules. Which means that the whole biochemistry has to be non-molecular.
$endgroup$
– Alexander
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Humans have an iron-based biology. It's one of the reasons why our blood is red. Do you mean iron rather than carbon as the basic chemistry? Please note that, insofar as we understand chemistry, there are precious few atoms that can take the place of carbon - iron isn't one of them. Iron-hydrogen bonds are not as numerous nor as stable as carbon-hydrogen bonds.
$endgroup$
– JBH
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Humans have an iron-based biology. It's one of the reasons why our blood is red. Do you mean iron rather than carbon as the basic chemistry? Please note that, insofar as we understand chemistry, there are precious few atoms that can take the place of carbon - iron isn't one of them. Iron-hydrogen bonds are not as numerous nor as stable as carbon-hydrogen bonds.
$endgroup$
– JBH
2 days ago
add a comment |
1 Answer
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$begingroup$
It's certainly possible but it's also unlikely because of a chemical property called Valency. Put simply, carbon makes a great basis for organic compounds because it's naturally tetravalent, or in other words can combine with 4 other elements or atoms to form new molecules. This means that you can quickly build very complex molecules with substantially different properties from each other, just sticking with a few common elements.
CHNO (Carbon, Hydrogen, Nitrogen, Oxygen) compounds are the basis of complex life on Earth and from these we get carbohydrates, LSD, alcohol, caffeine, morphine, and many other types of compounds that when used within a complex lifeform, have massively different effects.
Iron is at best trivalent, as I understand it usually bivalent, meaning it doesn't quite have the same ability to build complex organic molecules as carbon. If it could, we'd probably be iron based life forms because iron is more plentiful in our environment than carbon is.
Also, because iron oxidises VERY well, it may well restrict the capacity of the lifeforms to metabolise and oxidise because any oxygen that comes near the iron in the lifeform is likely to be trapped exceedingly well. This is in fact how our hemoglobin works to get oxygen through our bodies right now. If the entire lifeform was iron based, it may not be as efficient at getting oxygen to all parts of it.
This is one of the key reasons why silicon is generally seen as the most likely candidate for alternative biochemistry, although it's not as prevalent as carbon. Another possibility might be Chromium (because in certain conditions it can be hexavalent), but that would be even more exotic a lifeform to form and it is difficult to imagine how it might work.
So possible? Yes. Practically possible? Probably not, at least not if you want complex diverse life on your planet.
edited 2 days ago
Renan
45.7k11105230
answered 2 days ago
Tim B IITim B II
26.4k659112
$endgroup$
2
$begingroup$
Witness me, Shiny and Chromium!!!
$endgroup$
– Joe Bloggs
2 days ago
add a comment |
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1 Answer
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$begingroup$
It's certainly possible but it's also unlikely because of a chemical property called Valency. Put simply, carbon makes a great basis for organic compounds because it's naturally tetravalent, or in other words can combine with 4 other elements or atoms to form new molecules. This means that you can quickly build very complex molecules with substantially different properties from each other, just sticking with a few common elements.
CHNO (Carbon, Hydrogen, Nitrogen, Oxygen) compounds are the basis of complex life on Earth and from these we get carbohydrates, LSD, alcohol, caffeine, morphine, and many other types of compounds that when used within a complex lifeform, have massively different effects.
Iron is at best trivalent, as I understand it usually bivalent, meaning it doesn't quite have the same ability to build complex organic molecules as carbon. If it could, we'd probably be iron based life forms because iron is more plentiful in our environment than carbon is.
Also, because iron oxidises VERY well, it may well restrict the capacity of the lifeforms to metabolise and oxidise because any oxygen that comes near the iron in the lifeform is likely to be trapped exceedingly well. This is in fact how our hemoglobin works to get oxygen through our bodies right now. If the entire lifeform was iron based, it may not be as efficient at getting oxygen to all parts of it.
This is one of the key reasons why silicon is generally seen as the most likely candidate for alternative biochemistry, although it's not as prevalent as carbon. Another possibility might be Chromium (because in certain conditions it can be hexavalent), but that would be even more exotic a lifeform to form and it is difficult to imagine how it might work.
So possible? Yes. Practically possible? Probably not, at least not if you want complex diverse life on your planet.
edited 2 days ago
Renan
45.7k11105230
answered 2 days ago
Tim B IITim B II
26.4k659112
$endgroup$
2
$begingroup$
Witness me, Shiny and Chromium!!!
$endgroup$
– Joe Bloggs
2 days ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
It's certainly possible but it's also unlikely because of a chemical property called Valency. Put simply, carbon makes a great basis for organic compounds because it's naturally tetravalent, or in other words can combine with 4 other elements or atoms to form new molecules. This means that you can quickly build very complex molecules with substantially different properties from each other, just sticking with a few common elements.
CHNO (Carbon, Hydrogen, Nitrogen, Oxygen) compounds are the basis of complex life on Earth and from these we get carbohydrates, LSD, alcohol, caffeine, morphine, and many other types of compounds that when used within a complex lifeform, have massively different effects.
Iron is at best trivalent, as I understand it usually bivalent, meaning it doesn't quite have the same ability to build complex organic molecules as carbon. If it could, we'd probably be iron based life forms because iron is more plentiful in our environment than carbon is.
Also, because iron oxidises VERY well, it may well restrict the capacity of the lifeforms to metabolise and oxidise because any oxygen that comes near the iron in the lifeform is likely to be trapped exceedingly well. This is in fact how our hemoglobin works to get oxygen through our bodies right now. If the entire lifeform was iron based, it may not be as efficient at getting oxygen to all parts of it.
This is one of the key reasons why silicon is generally seen as the most likely candidate for alternative biochemistry, although it's not as prevalent as carbon. Another possibility might be Chromium (because in certain conditions it can be hexavalent), but that would be even more exotic a lifeform to form and it is difficult to imagine how it might work.
So possible? Yes. Practically possible? Probably not, at least not if you want complex diverse life on your planet.
edited 2 days ago
Renan
45.7k11105230
answered 2 days ago
Tim B IITim B II
26.4k659112
$endgroup$
2
$begingroup$
Witness me, Shiny and Chromium!!!
$endgroup$
– Joe Bloggs
2 days ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
It's certainly possible but it's also unlikely because of a chemical property called Valency. Put simply, carbon makes a great basis for organic compounds because it's naturally tetravalent, or in other words can combine with 4 other elements or atoms to form new molecules. This means that you can quickly build very complex molecules with substantially different properties from each other, just sticking with a few common elements.
CHNO (Carbon, Hydrogen, Nitrogen, Oxygen) compounds are the basis of complex life on Earth and from these we get carbohydrates, LSD, alcohol, caffeine, morphine, and many other types of compounds that when used within a complex lifeform, have massively different effects.
Iron is at best trivalent, as I understand it usually bivalent, meaning it doesn't quite have the same ability to build complex organic molecules as carbon. If it could, we'd probably be iron based life forms because iron is more plentiful in our environment than carbon is.
Also, because iron oxidises VERY well, it may well restrict the capacity of the lifeforms to metabolise and oxidise because any oxygen that comes near the iron in the lifeform is likely to be trapped exceedingly well. This is in fact how our hemoglobin works to get oxygen through our bodies right now. If the entire lifeform was iron based, it may not be as efficient at getting oxygen to all parts of it.
This is one of the key reasons why silicon is generally seen as the most likely candidate for alternative biochemistry, although it's not as prevalent as carbon. Another possibility might be Chromium (because in certain conditions it can be hexavalent), but that would be even more exotic a lifeform to form and it is difficult to imagine how it might work.
So possible? Yes. Practically possible? Probably not, at least not if you want complex diverse life on your planet.
edited 2 days ago
Renan
45.7k11105230
answered 2 days ago
Tim B IITim B II
26.4k659112
$endgroup$
It's certainly possible but it's also unlikely because of a chemical property called Valency. Put simply, carbon makes a great basis for organic compounds because it's naturally tetravalent, or in other words can combine with 4 other elements or atoms to form new molecules. This means that you can quickly build very complex molecules with substantially different properties from each other, just sticking with a few common elements.
CHNO (Carbon, Hydrogen, Nitrogen, Oxygen) compounds are the basis of complex life on Earth and from these we get carbohydrates, LSD, alcohol, caffeine, morphine, and many other types of compounds that when used within a complex lifeform, have massively different effects.
Iron is at best trivalent, as I understand it usually bivalent, meaning it doesn't quite have the same ability to build complex organic molecules as carbon. If it could, we'd probably be iron based life forms because iron is more plentiful in our environment than carbon is.
Also, because iron oxidises VERY well, it may well restrict the capacity of the lifeforms to metabolise and oxidise because any oxygen that comes near the iron in the lifeform is likely to be trapped exceedingly well. This is in fact how our hemoglobin works to get oxygen through our bodies right now. If the entire lifeform was iron based, it may not be as efficient at getting oxygen to all parts of it.
This is one of the key reasons why silicon is generally seen as the most likely candidate for alternative biochemistry, although it's not as prevalent as carbon. Another possibility might be Chromium (because in certain conditions it can be hexavalent), but that would be even more exotic a lifeform to form and it is difficult to imagine how it might work.
So possible? Yes. Practically possible? Probably not, at least not if you want complex diverse life on your planet.
edited 2 days ago
Renan
45.7k11105230
answered 2 days ago
Tim B IITim B II
26.4k659112
edited 2 days ago
Renan
45.7k11105230
edited 2 days ago
Renan
45.7k11105230
edited 2 days ago
Renan
45.7k11105230
45.7k11105230
answered 2 days ago
Tim B IITim B II
26.4k659112
answered 2 days ago
Tim B IITim B II
26.4k659112
answered 2 days ago
Tim B IITim B II
26.4k659112
26.4k659112
2
$begingroup$
Witness me, Shiny and Chromium!!!
$endgroup$
– Joe Bloggs
2 days ago
add a comment |
2
$begingroup$
Witness me, Shiny and Chromium!!!
$endgroup$
– Joe Bloggs
2 days ago
2
2
$begingroup$
Witness me, Shiny and Chromium!!!
$endgroup$
– Joe Bloggs
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Witness me, Shiny and Chromium!!!
$endgroup$
– Joe Bloggs
2 days ago
add a comment |
ShroomZed is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
ShroomZed is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
ShroomZed is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
ShroomZed is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
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$begingroup$
This is hardly possible, because metals (unlike non-metals) are not able to form strong Me-Me bonds in molecules. Which means that the whole biochemistry has to be non-molecular.
$endgroup$
– Alexander
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Humans have an iron-based biology. It's one of the reasons why our blood is red. Do you mean iron rather than carbon as the basic chemistry? Please note that, insofar as we understand chemistry, there are precious few atoms that can take the place of carbon - iron isn't one of them. Iron-hydrogen bonds are not as numerous nor as stable as carbon-hydrogen bonds.
$endgroup$
– JBH
2 days ago